If you are working with over 50-60 files ( about 3-5mins each) and you need to color grade and transcode them, tell me a faster way.... Average about 30-40mins per clip and you can see the pain it can be. Also RED will have more noise than a C300 as it is not as low light sensitive.
5D mkii to Red Camera
- Thread starter CuCu
- Start date
If you are working with over 50-60 files ( about 3-5mins each) and you need to color grade and transcode them, tell me a faster way.... Average about 30-40mins per clip and you can see the pain it can be. Also RED will have more noise than a C300 as it is not as low light sensitive.
S. Matthews
Well-known member
I'm just talking in reference to the OP who shoots music videos. the only footage you need to render and transcode is the final timeline which should be less than ten minutes... if you are working in adobe not sure about FCX which I do not use and proxies is not my kind of workflow.
the noise level is rather subjective seeing as red does no in camera noise reduction like the canon's and if you run red footage through neat video it's amazing the footage you can get. Considering render times again I'm not even using neat video on the r3d's but from my DNxHD files out of davinci and it still works wonders. but like I said it's up to you and how you work so blanket statements about any camera or workflow are a little unusual to me.
the noise level is rather subjective seeing as red does no in camera noise reduction like the canon's and if you run red footage through neat video it's amazing the footage you can get. Considering render times again I'm not even using neat video on the r3d's but from my DNxHD files out of davinci and it still works wonders. but like I said it's up to you and how you work so blanket statements about any camera or workflow are a little unusual to me.
When clients want to see the footage recorded and don't understand red raw and why it looks like that what are you supposed to do? This is speaking on working on Music Videos for Record labels and all of the above and different people it needs to go through. Also many times you need to render out good high quality levels so you can see exactly how it's going to look and if it even works. No way you put it, Red work flow and Canon c300 is not the same.
S. Matthews
Well-known member
I'm sorry we appear to be having two different conversations, why is the C300 being brought up? if that is your workflow/camera great I'm not knocking it just saying not everyone works the same. since the red one there have been hundreds(might be an exaggeration but Dino g has shot a lot) of music videos on red one and now epic/scarlet, plenty of people shoot with reds it's a choice, don't like them or the workflow then don't that is another choice, like the c300 great make that choice. but the speed of post with red is not as bad as it's made out, you want dailies/proxies use an external recorder(they are real cheap) or create custom in camera looks for each setup, have a backup camera and use it for playback(horrible idea but I'm just thinking here) mah either way plenty of workarounds for every scenario all depends on what your end game is, and your preferences are, and who you are delivering your project too.
take er easy and have a good one!
take er easy and have a good one!
Maybe you have not paid attention to this thread. The op shoots on 5d and is considering RED, myself and others said RED might be overkill for what he is doing. An alternative could be Mark III or C300 which is basically the same workflow.
You on the other hand think that RED is as fast or faster than working with 5d footage in Post as you stated, which is what I do not agree with.... Simple.
So instead of the OP learning a new work flow which will require time and be more expensive on all fronts he can step up his quality and go with a C300 or even C500 which will be the same workflow but the overall image will be better. That imo would be better than jumping to RED.
Maybe even the new Canon 1D C shooting 4k can be a good option as well. At the end though I've worked with RED and imo I will steer a client away as honestly for youtube viewing it's not such a big difference, especially when it's being down sized to 720-1080p.[h=1][/h]
S. Matthews
Well-known member
yes but I never mentioned the C300(well I did in relation to your noise comment but admittedly I was confused as to it's inclusion there as well), I was addressing saying red footage was slow in general, I never mentioned the 5D. just said it was faster than my old workflow, once again you are building a battle where there is none.
I'm just posing another view no need for him to take it on just pointing out what I have experienced as you are. This is about helping the OP not arguning over personal views of which camera we each think would suit him better. considering we don't know his workflow or clients all we can do is give him advice based on our experince which we have... I see no issue with that.
perhaps if we were talking about alexa C300 and the 5D this conversation would have gone differently....
sorry didn't mean to offend just adding the opposite side of the coin.
I'm just posing another view no need for him to take it on just pointing out what I have experienced as you are. This is about helping the OP not arguning over personal views of which camera we each think would suit him better. considering we don't know his workflow or clients all we can do is give him advice based on our experince which we have... I see no issue with that.
perhaps if we were talking about alexa C300 and the 5D this conversation would have gone differently....
sorry didn't mean to offend just adding the opposite side of the coin.
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No offend , just different point of views which makes these forums great. I'm not saying you are right or wrong just different opinions , that's all. Personally I love the image you can get out of RED, but also feel at least on what I have experienced that there is more to the workflow and overall cost than just stepping up with the Canon Cinema line. Also for these videos where they are obviously a lot less than $10k I also feel RED is overkill.
Now if we are shooting million dollar movies and need 5k res than Red is second to none, but at last my opinion still stands that for shooting and delivering 720-1080p footage the C300 or even c100 cinema camera might be an option to look too. Regardless apologies if you felt I came off negativity as that is not my position
peace
S. Matthews
Well-known member
Fair enough, no problem at all, I find anything can be used for anything there is no overkill when it comes to art or craft but in business there most definitely is. If money is an issue then yes don't blow your budget on a red. If you can't justify the expense over the increased quality do not get it, and that goes with any camera, though red has more hidden costs than most, all cameras have hidden costs be it time or money so there is that to consider as well.
Have good one!
Have good one!
And I fall into the former. Always uploading H.264 transcodes with timecode to Vimeo or Dropbox for clients to review. I cannot fathom dropping Red Raw footage into my workflow without the benefit of a Red Rocket card (which, contrary to what has been said here, shows no evidence of being EOL'd).
That's great and all, but can the OP afford it? Obviously, if Scarlet/Epic is something that you could afford, and you can shoot $30k+ video in addition to $3.5k videos, then it's, frankly, a no-brainer. But if you're rarely hitting even the $3.5k budget for a video, and you can barely afford the base price for the Scarlet body, then Red is not for you.
A dp I work with charges $2500 for a c300 and set of Zeiss lenses. That same dp charges $3000 for the Red and more because he needs an assistant. With a 10k budget I opted to shoot on the c300 and that $1000 I saved I put it into the project. The artist wanted RED even almost to a point that he demanded it, but I convinced him out of it and at the end he was more than happy with the c300.
He said he already has the coin to make the purchase. I know what he's going through, rap is monkey see monkey do. If cats see a RED in their favorite artist behind the scenes vid...they want to see it on their set. If he's getting a good volume of work with available production value (read someone's house and a friends car) he can get over and make a killing with a RED off of volume alone. Neither of the OP's videos looked to require massive crew and make up or craft services to get completed. These guys come as they are where they are, and if you can get $3500 for a day of shooting and slapping MBL on some footage...sweet.
boomstrikevideo
Active member
I have a MK2, MK3 and Scarlet. First I really don't get the comment about how the footage looks when showing a client. The Scarlet records raw data, so you can tune the look of your monitor output to suit the tastes of the project, or the client. In the end, it will not change the image data actually recorded, as it is raw. With ISO, color temp, and most other settings, you're only changing the metadata, not the image. I will say that working with raw footage is more than worth the minor inconveniences. I used to cut on FCP but switched to a blazin fast pc and CS6 and have never looked back. Haven't had a need for a RR yet. I love the fact that when a higher end project rolls in I have it covered.
Paul Hudson
Vacuum Tube Member
Tell me about this blazing fast PC? I need information to buy one.
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