4x4" vs 4x5.65" Matte Box

D

DDirector

Veteran
I know that the 4x5.65" matteboxes are the industry standard.
But I am wondering if a 4x4" mattebox will do.

It's a few hundred dollars more for the larger mattebox and probably going to cost a lot more for the ND filters as well.
What's the difference then if they would both work?

How wide can you be on a 4x4" mattebox (in either S35 or FF)
 
It all depends on your FoV and the mattebox itself. I have an old 4x4 MB from my early SD days and still used it into HD, especially during live shots when I needed a polarizer and I wasn't shooting on the back-end(wide) of the lens. On 2/3" 16x9 my w/a lens is equivalent to roughly 11mm/s35 and a 4x4 will not cover it at full-wide, but was fine after zooming in some.

Some manufacturers, like Arri, would actually have notes for the MB's and adapter rings stating which cameras, lenses and FoV's would be covered.

A quick down 'n dirty test I just ran:

CN-E 14mm(my widest cine prime) on my C300(s35/16x9) is covered(no vignetting) by my Arri MMB-1 4x5.65 and Bright Tangerine Misfit Atom 4x5.65.

CN-E 14mm on my 5D mkIV(FF/3x2) & (1080HD/16x9) in not covered(heavy vignetting by the shade) by my Arri MMB-1 4x5.65, BUT works with my BT Misfit Atom(shade on, flag removed).

I also threw my 8-15mm Canon on my C300. Set the lens to approx 14mm and pushed the Arri back on the rails until it cleared the image(no vignetting) and started zooming out, before I even hit 13mm(guessing) it was vignetting. Not super scientific and also not a rectilinear lens, but you kind of get the idea.

I wouldn't buy anything smaller than 4x5.65. I actually have a 5.65x5.65 Arri, as well, that I bought years ago to be able to use a polarizer on my W/A ENG lens without vignetting. And 6.6x6.6 to cover large diameter lenses and wide FoV's is becoming standard, too.

Another option that's also becoming popular is matte boxes that can accommodate 138mm round polarizers and "regular" 4x5.65 and 4x4 filters that don't need to rotate.
 
I think it depends a lot on physical construction and your lenses.

A 4.4 filter is about 100mm square

If your largest lens is 77diameter then you will see that a 100mm filter can be placed on the lens front and is unlikely to vignette with anything but the most extreme wide angle

Simply 100mm is bigger than 77mm

But a mattebox has an edge to hold a filter, maybe 1.5mm on each side (1.5*2=3) so you are down to 97mm of the 100mm

Then the biggest factor is if you hold the filter not at the front of the lens but a few mm in front of it.
THe further the filter is from the lens front the more likely a vignette.
If you have two filters then obvously the second filter will be at least the thickness of the first filter away from the lens.

So we get to..
So how many filters do you want to stack ?
What is your largest lens front
What is your widest lens FOV

Matte boxes vary in design from components that slip over the lens through to nuns knickers to exclude light, some sit the glass close to the front element - some less so.

I did a lot of research (as an FS100 owner crying for ND) and found I could get 18mm S35 with a TLS raven MBox on a 4.4 - most other 4.4 matte boxes could not hit 18mmS35.

So..
Research carefully and you might get away with 4.4 and save a load of money and weight.. but if you want to stack a load of filters, and have some large diameter wide lenses.. you are going to be in for 4. 5 mattebox

I think the research is worth it.
 
My Arri 4x4 mattebox has only been used once in the past 10 years, whereas we rent 4x5.65 matteboxes on almost every gig.
 
I find with variable NDS the 4x5.6 filters and matte boxes far more useful with much more vertical fine tuning available.

Chris Young
 
I use my Chrosziel 4x4 on my ENG camera a Sony Z150, no problems on the back of the lens but I primarily use it for grads. I have another Chrosziel 4x5.6 which looks nice but rarely gets used these days as Chrosziel adapters and attachments are expensive and I never seem to have the right one for the lenses I am using at the time. Trying to get one for my 28-135 Sony has been a pain and means I need to buy another rail adapter for the matte box as well. I am probably going to just buy a large Nisi 150mm system, easier to travel with. You can always improv a French flag or such. Just my two cents.
 
Without flags, I think I have to zoom into 14mm on my Tokina 11-16mm with my Cinematics 4x4 matte box on an APS-C sensor (I'll double check tonight if I get a chance). Edit: 13mm works if the lens is almost touching the filter. 4x5.6 would be the safest bet, but you could try something like the Genus 4x4 wide-angle matte box.

I generally don't shoot wider than 24mm outdoors, maybe 16mm at the widest.

Do you know anyone in your area who would let you test for vignetting with their matte box?
 
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