4k TV on the way....

As sure as we are all listening to music on our 24bit 96K CD players, 4K viewing in the home is just around the corner. How people will consume media in the future is the variable that eludes this discussion.
 
cinebuddy said:
The pipe is already there. Our provider just upped our speed for "free".
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Good for you. Providers are not charitable organizations. Their mission is to earn money for their share holders. You may have received a freebie from your company, but that doesn't mean all the companies operate this way. Most companies charge based on bandwidth use. If the consumer wants 4K delivered to their household they are going to pay for the additional bandwidth necessary. I don't want to pay more than $15/month for internet service. Could you recommend a few companies that will deliver 50 Mps for $15/mo.

What about the sports audience? The Super Bowl and The World Cup have millions of viewers all over the world. Hypothetically let's assume that there's no over the air broadcast. All sporting events are to be delivered around the world via fiber (this is happening right now). Now we want to deliver this sports programming over the internet at 4K. It should be simple because the delivery mechanism (fiber) is already in place. All fine and well except that we need to produce the live event in 4K. This will require 4K cameras appropriate for broadcast applications (this exclude RED and ALEXA), 4K switchers, 4K character generators, 4K slo mo (EVS) and a bunch of other gear. At the 2011 NAB show there wasn't a single piece of 4K broadcast gear on the show floor. Developing an entirely new set of broadcast hardware for 4K to be configured on OB trucks will take a very long time. Typically if products are under development you will get a sneak peek on the show floor, sort of like the auto industry and concept cars. I don't expect to see any 4K broadcast gear at the 2012 show.

People get caught up with the word "broadcast" as if it only means over the air TV or the local news. Regardless of the delivery mechanism, all sporting events utilize broadcast production hardware.
Live sports at 4K? Don't hold your breath.
 
Let me add a comment on the infrastructure argument. While fiber will increase bandwidth, there are other factors to contend with. Traffic being the main contention. The reason 4K is not on the radar, is because the drastic increase in mobile devices far outweighs the thoughts of high resolution programming. Each Ipad, Ipod and smart phone is a video on demand source. Both for revenue and bandwidth consideration. The focus for many years to come will be to accomodate the load of these devices on the system. Without going into a dissertation on the subject, just wait a decade or so for the high resolution market forces to kick in. And yes, I work for a major media company in design engineering.
 
milksac said:
...
What about the sports audience? The Super Bowl and The World Cup have millions of viewers all over the world. Hypothetically let's assume that there's no over the air broadcast. All sporting events are to be delivered around the world via fiber (this is happening right now). Now we want to deliver this sports programming over the internet at 4K. It should be simple because the delivery mechanism (fiber) is already in place. All fine and well except that we need to produce the live event in 4K. This will require 4K cameras appropriate for broadcast applications (this exclude RED and ALEXA), 4K switchers, 4K character generators, 4K slo mo (EVS) and a bunch of other gear. At the 2011 NAB show there wasn't a single piece of 4K broadcast gear on the show floor. Developing an entirely new set of broadcast hardware for 4K to be configured on OB trucks will take a very long time. Typically if products are under development you will get a sneak peek on the show floor, sort of like the auto industry and concept cars. I don't expect to see any 4K broadcast gear at the 2012 show.

People get caught up with the word "broadcast" as if it only means over the air TV or the local news. Regardless of the delivery mechanism, all sporting events utilize broadcast production hardware.
Live sports at 4K? Don't hold your breath.
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Live sports at 8K is what's happening this year at the 2012 London Olympics from the BBC and NHK.

Research "Super Hi-Vision" online and get informed by watching the real 8K footage.
4K is not enough, 8K is enough as a stills replacement and has enough resolution to allow for 3D glasses-free viewing

Look up NHK and super hi-vision, it been going on for years and expected to release in 2020 (8 years from now).

An older, less informative post from 2007:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...7680-x-4320-pixels)&highlight=super+hi-vision
 
J Bellari said:
Live sports at 8K is what's happening this year at the 2012 London Olympics from the BBC and NHK.

Research "Super Hi-Vision" online and get informed
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I had a look. NHK says an 85 inch display is the key to their system. 8 years from now everyone will dump their tiny 46" low res (1920 x 1080) displays in favor of these hi rez behemouths. Also, everyone will live in huge houses that will accomodate the long viewing distances needed for such a large display.

That's awesome, we're all going to live in mansions with giant TVs. I can't wait for the future.
 
J Bellari said:
Live sports at 8K is what's happening this year at the 2012 London Olympics from the BBC and NHK.

Research "Super Hi-Vision" online and get informed by watching the real 8K footage.
4K is not enough, 8K is enough as a stills replacement and has enough resolution to allow for 3D glasses-free viewing

Look up NHK and super hi-vision, it been going on for years and expected to release in 2020 (8 years from now).

An older, less informative post from 2007:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...7680-x-4320-pixels)&highlight=super+hi-vision
Click to expand...

http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2011/11/watch-the-london-2012-olympics-in-7680-x-4320-super-hi-vision-hd/

Notice that in the last paragraph it says "this technology is unlikely to hit the market until 2022 at the very earliest."

It's not that it can't be done now like I have been saying all along. But it won't be commonplace for a long time. We have had IMAX for a long time (25+ years) but it doesn't mean we'll be seeing that sort of resolution in our homes in the next few years. MIT has a camera capable of a trillion frames per second. Doesn't mean that it's going to roll out in cameras next year.
 
Michael Olsen said:
Guys, all of our infrastructure is set up for SD. We've got SD tape-based cameras, SD tape-based booth and editors, an SD infrastructure for delivery, including DVDs which are only just becoming ubiquitous, and the only TV any American can buy is an SDTV. The HD thing sounds nice - maybe good for theaters with their expensive film scans - the resolution makes sense there. TV and indie production doesn't need more resolution than SD - it's too hard to edit HDTV, there's no way to deliver it, and tapeless cameras? Come on.

Oh. Wait. It's 2012. Let me rephrase that.
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In my market (Seattle), we're the 12 largest in the nation of 210 markets... two of the four news stations are still shooting Betacam SX. We're P2, but shooting virtually everything in DVCPro25. The Fox station is to the best of my knowledge the only ones shooting in HD (720p60), but they're shooting XDCam EX on EX3's. It's 2012 and a lot of places *are* still shooting and editing SD tape. It's not that it's hard, it's that the amount of capital investment needed to switch over is huge. I mean many places haven't been able to afford to fully make the HD switch yet. 4k simply isn't on most people's roadmap yet, and won't be for quite a while.
 
milksac said:
I had a look. NHK says an 85 inch display is the key to their system. 8 years from now everyone will dump their tiny 46" low res (1920 x 1080) displays in favor of these hi rez behemouths. Also, everyone will live in huge houses that will accomodate the long viewing distances needed for such a large display.

That's awesome, we're all going to live in mansions with giant TVs. I can't wait for the future.
Click to expand...

That is awsome. I'm assuming my Honda Civic Hovercraft will be parked and floating in my garage as well.
 
milksac said:
I had a look. NHK says an 85 inch display is the key to their system. 8 years from now everyone will dump their tiny 46" low res (1920 x 1080) displays in favor of these hi rez behemouths. Also, everyone will live in huge houses that will accomodate the long viewing distances needed for such a large display.

That's awesome, we're all going to live in mansions with giant TVs. I can't wait for the future.
Click to expand...

Yea in Hong Kong, Japan and favelas they are anxiously waiting for this big bright future!
 
milksac said:
At the 2011 NAB show there wasn't a single piece of 4K broadcast gear on the show floor.
Click to expand...

Yes this is so telling, on one side you have a series of people from the broadcast industry telling us the reality and challenges this industry from an insider perspective and on the other outsiders/consumers that think and guess. I think as one of those outsiders/consumers, I know whose word I am going to listen to. I am a photographer going hopefully someday as a cinematographer, but I prefer to listen to people who work in the industry and have the experience. If you listen to some here, we will all be able to drive our car at a 1000 km per hour because some rocket car did it on a salt lake.

We will surely have some 4k tv by default at some point because the technology will have advance so that the price difference will be very small. But I don't know about the technological challenges involved. If it is really much more important, the cost is going to take a lot, a lot of time to come close to HD set. Because consumers won't do it in masses until the price is around the same as 1080p TV. It is the same as 3d, they were much costlier, but in the end as there was very limited consumer adoption the prices came just a little higher than normal ones. It has become just like a normal add-on, no more the main selling point.
 
As a quick guess, I'd say my big screen spends about an hour a day watching sports -- MLB makes every ball game available in HD, as does the NFL. The NHL makes every game available, though not all in HD -- but they make every game available over the internet, in HD if shot that way, complete with PVR type functions. My cable package includes HD versions of NASCAR, though I've not watched it, and likely NBA too though I'm not a fan. Setanta arrives in HD, and includes rugby and MLS.

I watch a movie a week, also in HD, typically from an on-demand source though occasionally on Blu-Ray,

I watch a couple of hours a week off one of the 'new' broadcasters -- HBO, Showtime, et cetera -- always in HD.

I watch a couple of hours a week of the classic networks -- in HD of course -- NBC, ABC, CBS, CTV, FOX, CBC -- sitcoms & hour long dramas, maybe a touch of reality tv.

Oh, and I watch the local weather, for about 5 minutes a couple of times a week.

So in the grand scheme of things, the fact that my colleagues at the local station (metro pop. 1.2 million) are still working with ten year old DVCPro gear, really doesn't amount to much. 15 hours a week of HD shot & sourced, 15 minutes of local SD ...

Just sayin'

Cheers,
GB
 
Mike Harvey said:
In my market (Seattle), we're the 12 largest in the nation of 210 markets... two of the four news stations are still shooting Betacam SX. We're P2, but shooting virtually everything in DVCPro25. The Fox station is to the best of my knowledge the only ones shooting in HD (720p60), but they're shooting XDCam EX on EX3's. It's 2012 and a lot of places *are* still shooting and editing SD tape. It's not that it's hard, it's that the amount of capital investment needed to switch over is huge. I mean many places haven't been able to afford to fully make the HD switch yet. 4k simply isn't on most people's roadmap yet, and won't be for quite a while.
Click to expand...

In San Diego the NBC station shoots with HPX370 in SD 16x9 and up converts for broadcast. They have only been broadcasting the news in HD for a little over a year.
 
4K is and will be amazing. As mentioned earlier in this thread it wont do much for you if you don’t have a room big enough to benefit having a huge 4K TV. Broadcasting is changing and distribution is as also changing. Internet TV will probably be more relevant and broad in the next couple of years, and cable and satellite companies wont have these 2000 channel lineups anymore. Ala cart will be the norm. The big networks are the anchor stores of the cable mall. If they pullout of cable cable will be in trouble. Now how will 4K be delivered to our homes? Fiber? I don’t think my home is fibered into it by AT&T. Heck I still get pixelation in HD. So still a lot has to done by the companies that bring content into our homes and its anybody's guess when it will be available.
 
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