David W. Jones
Veteran
So a Priest, Rabbi, and Imam walk into a Best Buy store to look at 4K TVs, and….
4K TV Article
- Thread starter Mark Williams
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pulpfiction007
Veteran
Agree 100%...
That threshold for audio was met quite a while ago and those of us who record music were lucky in a way since that happened. I made the progression from 4 track tape to 8 track tape to 16 track 16 bit digital to 24 track 24 bit digital............and for 7 years there has been nothing else to chase quality wise (other than the front end stuff, mics pre amps, etc) I can master in a quality that surpasses by far the end format.
For video the issue of having an "end game" has been codec related more than resolution related...I suspect most would be very happy with a 10 bit 4:2:2 large sensor camera that has the bells and whistles. Something like a BMCC/AF100 mash up....many people just shoot Pro Res on the Black Magic because it's high quality, yet doesn't create the heavy data issues like raw shooting.
Of course this thread is about TVs. Sorry about the tangent, but to come full circle - I believe we are rapidly approaching the time where there will be no more to chase in the video world. Pristine HD is already amazing (when you have the purest form of it) and 4K will be more than MOST will ever need...yet we will go there before we ever get 100 channels of pure HD because that's how it goes in the marketing world. I suspect that for content creation either a pure 2k or 4k camera will be PLENTY good enough for a long long time.
With the approach of 4K an HD cam is not suddenly like an SD camera and a 1080P TV is not like an SD 4:3 monstrosity.
adkimery
Veteran
Adkimery, there are a lot of contradictions in your points. I am not convinced.
Since broadcasters will be the last to change, and we are talking about TVs here, how does this make a revolution? The install base of internet TVs is growing but small. So the people who can actually watch 4k are limited to the folks who purchased 4k TVs and have them connected to the internet with a very fast internet speed, people who have 4k capable computer displays with the same fast internet speed or people with retina I-pads with the fast connection speed.
You many not agree w/my POV but I don't think there are any contradictions in my post. 66 million Smart TVs were sold in 2012 and by 2015 the projection is that Smart TVs will be more available that 'dumb' TVs. Even if you don't have a smart TV there are a multitude of set top boxes (everything from Blu-ray players to video game consoles to Roku & AppleTV) that very easily and inexpensively allow people to stream content to their TVs. The majority of homes in the US are 'streaming ready' even if they aren't streaming currently.
Now, w/regards to 4k, yes few people today own 4k TVs or display devices and there is paltry little 4k content to watch currently, but that's par for the course when something new comes out. How many people had HD TVs in 2002? How much HD content was available to consumers in 2002? I remember HDnet looping the same footage (lots of nature stock broll) multiple times a day back then. Everything new starts out as a niche. With HD, how much changed between 2002 and 2009? I'll answer my own question, by 2009 about half of the homes in the US had at least one HDTV and about 2/3s of those homes subscribed to HD content from their cable/sat provider. Will 4k be in everyone's home tomorrow? Next year? The year after that? The year after that? No, but I think that sometime between 2018 and 2021 4k will hit the mainstream. DVD, the fastest adopted consumer tech ever, took about 4 years to become mainstream. People expecting new formats like this to be broadly adapted by the masses in 12-24 months have exceedingly unrealistic expectations.
4k will be a premium service first just like HD, DVD, etc.,. before it can become a mainstream service. Like I've mentioned before, streaming companies like Amazon, Netflix and YouTube (plus Sony w/it's already launched 4k streaming movie service) see 4k as a chance to really separate themselves from their traditional broadcasting competitors and with Comcast and Time Warner getting in on the act you have two very large content owners that wouldn't mind selling/renting 4k content at a premium price (while at the same time up-selling their internet plans so customers get 'the best 4k experience possible'). Also, the PS4 and Xbox One can both output 4k video signals so millions of people already have at least one 'piece' of the 4k puzzle sitting in their living rooms.
Even once 4k becomes mainstream HD and 4k will enjoy a long, happy co-existence kinda like DVD & Blu-ray or digital music downloads & CDs (fun fact: It wasn't until 2011 that legal music downloads outpaced CD sales (51% to 49%).
-Andrew
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G
Guest
Guest
The Priest says he definitely needs UHD for his church, and it is going to be money well spent. The Bestbuy geek says, "you are right". After the priest leaves happy, the Rabbi says, you know, there really is no discernible difference from HD, that was a terrible waste of tithe money. The Bestbuy geek says, "you are right." The Rabbi turns and walks out, leaving just the Imam. The Imam looks at the Bestbuy geek and says, they cannot both be right, to which the Bestbuy geek says, "you are right."
...He then sells the Imam an outdated laptop, adding on $500 dollars in accessories and insurance costs. Two months later the laptop breaks, and the Imam gets a new updated version for free.
Moral of the story is: printer ink is an expensive and hidden small business cost.
Bassman2003
Veteran
Well I think we basically agree. 2018-2021 is pretty far into the future with regards to the froth building up today. Nobody here is saying 4k is not coming or that it is unwarranted etc... It is this false hysteria that video people have a need to act today to stay in the game that is just over the top. Yes 4k is nice but I guess it comes down to making equipment purchases from a business point of view or hobby/personal enjoyment point of view.
Ian-T
Veteran
Ha ha...Nice.
Robert Ruffo
Well-known member
In what world to clients request DVD deliverables!? Are you sure you didn't write this post in 2005? 100% of our work is ftp based uploads of 1080p and 2K ProRes. Sometimes alongside that we compress an H264 version really nicely, as a courtesy so they have something ready for web streaming right away. I haven't actually played a DVD is 2 years, blu-rays yes, but DVD?
What would a client DO with a DVD exactly!? You can't broadcast it, you can't upload it… Your post amazes me.
As for Sd to HD - you could easily see a big difference at normal viewing distances. 4K no. Not the same.
3D required glasses, 4K requires nothing - also not the same.
adkimery
Veteran
We are so inundated with fast traveling info and communication these days that I think it can screw up our perception of reality a bit. Communication is instant but products and services going from 'announcement' to 'wide spread adoption' still takes years.
I've worked on a few shows recently for big cable channels where the execs wanted cuts delivered on DVD. Prior to that I worked on an indie doc (later picked up by HBO) and we made a ton of DVD screeners to send out to everyone from film festivals to donors/potential donors to network execs (when it was being shopped around). I did a ton of file delivery and/or streaming too but DVD is ubiquitous and it's been around long enough that even techno-phobes are comfortable with it.
G
Guest
Guest
Miss seeing you on the boards, lost contact ever since I left panny. You doing much 4K?
I rarely use 4k for work. Usually family videos. Though, maybe (and I mean maybe) shooting a feature which has some ultra low light demands, may end up pairing the 1DC with a RedMX.
alaskacameradude
Veteran
I can't answer for the guy you directed this at but since you asked the question, I'd say in my world.
About 60% of my clients still ask for a DVD. I just finished a job producing 3 separate, but related
promotional videos for an organization. Guess what they wanted for deliverables. 5,000 DVDs!
Talk about crazy! The extra cost they incurred instead of only posting it online was over 8 grand!
I have said it before and I'll say it again. Don't make the mistake of assuming that everywhere is
like your corner of the world. There is a huge variety of video jobs out there and it just
depends on your market. I made a good bit of money off that last job....shooting in HD on
the FS100 and 700 and downrezzing to crappy SD MPEG 2.
Now that (5000) volume of DVDs is pretty unusual for me. However, usually I buy a
100 pack of DVDs and a 25 pack of Blu Rays from Amazon every 2 or 3 months. Yup
4 times my clients want DVDs than Blu Rays. It's about 60% DVD, 15% Blu Ray and 25% streaming video for my clients. I swear there is something about some businessmen
that just insists to their brain that if they are spending thousands on a video, they need a
physical product and not just a video 'on the cloud'.
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Danielvilliers
Veteran
Nothing is what exactly what 4k offers. I mean at normal viewing distance it won't make any difference. For sure there will be the wow factor because the salesman in the showroom will put the client at 2 feet from a 70+ inch screen and tell him how life like it is with some flowers/nature/architecture shot with the contrast and saturation pushed to the limit. For sure a human being shot at 4k with all the pores and skin defect is not what will play in loop. But who watches tv or cinema the nose touching the screen. In fact 3D in a good or bad way depending on who you are did bring something different.
Kraut69
Well-known member
I imagine Sony is trying to recapture the market prominence they once held in TV sales for so many decades, so they are pushing 4K Tv's more than anyone. And to push the TV's along, 4K cameras. People have a lot of other cool things to spend their money on than an upgrade to an HD TV (which is still showing predominately sub 1080P content). They may nibble, but they won't bite.
Bassman2003
Veteran
I guess this negativity is pointed at me so I will respond as Alaska did. Not everybody does the same type of work. Not everybody works for a company that makes movies. Not everybody fits into a nice little box. Not everybody is rude either
Having said that, I do a lot of different types of work. I am a one-man band that has owned and operated my own business for over ten years. I do not owe you an explainantion but a lot of my work is live events either sports related or show related. My "clients" are people purchasing the product I produce. Many of these people want DVDs. So you make what sells. I could puff my chest out and say I delivery everything in uncompressed 1080p, but what would that do for me? It is what it is...
joe1946
Veteran
Are you saying people in Illinois are not buying HD TVs ?
adkimery
Veteran
It's not just Sony. Samsung, Netflix, Comcast, LG, Amazon, YouTube, Time Warner, Microsoft, etc., have all announced various partnerships/collaborations with regards to 4k. Sony has the most vertical approach (4k movies, 4k streaming service, 4k cameras, 4k TVs & 4k video output from PS4) but they certainly aren't the only company that sees dollar signs.
Zephyrnoid
Veteran
As RED Digital painfully discovered. Hype does not translate into blockbuster flicks. 90% of the features are used to produce 10% of the usable content.
So the winners are....... the manufacturers and industry press.
Gimme a high class production, well shot content in grainy fuzzy 640X480 any day over 4K rubbish
So the winners are....... the manufacturers and industry press.
Gimme a high class production, well shot content in grainy fuzzy 640X480 any day over 4K rubbish
Joncarr
Well-known member
4k rubbish? There's a lot more to 4k then resolution. And RED is doing just fine with dragon.