F55: 4K is the future (video presentation)

The situation will vary but what I charge or don't charge or to who is highly irrelevant.

Think of this instead: when the "masses" start offering 4k to their clients just ask yourself where that leaves the folks who don't have 4k as an offering?
 
starcentral said:
The situation will vary but what I charge or don't charge or to who is highly irrelevant. Think of this instead: when the "masses" start offering 4k to their clients just ask yourself where that leaves the folks who don't have 4k as an offering?
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So the answer seems to be "no extra charge" and 1080 deliverables.

The masses aren't close to offering 4k yet. Last time I checked, the masses were delivering mostly 720p of resolution.
 
Gary Huff said:
So the answer seems to be "no extra charge" and 1080 deliverables.
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Do the research. There are some industry sectors who's requirements are strictly 4k. I have already put out bids for this type of work.

Gary Huff said:
The masses aren't close to offering 4k yet. Last time I checked, the masses were delivering mostly 720p of resolution.
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Not yet, but in due time when company X offers it free or not free and company Y doesn't keep up you tell me what happens.
 
starcentral said:
Not yet, but in due time when company X offers it free or not free and company Y doesn't keep up you tell me what happens.
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Seriously, Dennis, I'm getting embarrassed for you. Do you honestly think that if you don't jump on the bandwagon in 2013 that you're forever missed the boat? Did everyone who not get the HVX when it first came out suddenly find themselves out of work?

Please.

I appreciate your gear lust...I know I have it too. But I won't let my gear lust cloud my better judgement. Great that you can tack on the workflow and disk space for 4k at no additional charge for your clients! Go you! You are AWESOME.

But not everyone needs it yet. And if you have a 4k master...what exactly do you do with it?
 
starcentral said:
The situation will vary but what I charge or don't charge or to who is highly irrelevant.
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Dennis, it wasn't a pedantic question. I just bought an F5 but not really for the 4K. Nice to know it is there though. I'd be interested if others are getting higher rates for 4K.

I shot a number of celeb and VIP interviews recently where the ability to crop in and change shot size at will would have been useful in the edit. In fact I often do that for SD deliveries when shooting HD. So I can see its uses and will probably try that as a legit upselling tactic.

In terms of delivery, for me HD/2K looks great even on large cinema screens.
 
When I think of the F5 2K HD seems like an extremely valuable asset. In fact I'd love it if they made an F2.5 with HD and 2K. I think 2K will hold up for a while even on a 4K projection
 
Wow, lets keep in mind that all these cameras are just tools. 4K offers more options than HD but at a price. In addition to us all being artists, we're also business owners, and of course we do what's right for ourselves... No reason to get your feathers ruffled. Is 4K the future?.. "The future of what application" is the answer.
 
Gary Huff said:
Seriously, Dennis, I'm getting embarrassed for you. Do you honestly think that if you don't jump on the bandwagon in 2013 that you're forever missed the boat? Did everyone who not get the HVX when it first came out suddenly find themselves out of work?

Please.

I appreciate your gear lust...I know I have it too. But I won't let my gear lust cloud my better judgement. Great that you can tack on the workflow and disk space for 4k at no additional charge for your clients! Go you! You are AWESOME.

But not everyone needs it yet. And if you have a 4k master...what exactly do you do with it?
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Don't be embarrassed for me, I think you missed the basic fundamentals of what I've been trying to say and discussion point I've been trying to raise. I don't "need" 4k more than the next guy but as more manufacturers keep giving 4k away at today's ridiculous prices it only makes it inevitable and mainstream. Where do people feel that leaves them, if anywhere? In your case maybe that's no where.

As for disk space, etc.. 4k using the XAVC codec has a lower data rate than most people are shooting HD in ProRes, so really its not a big deal.
 
starcentral said:
I don't "need" 4k more than the next guy but as more manufacturers keep giving 4k away at today's ridiculous prices it only makes it inevitable and mainstream.
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What "ridiculous prices" are you referring to? Isn't your F55 about $30,000? There's nothing even available at the moment for 4k, it's all just announcements. The actual products might not be that impressive.
 
Yeah the F55 is ridiculously high.. I was referring to the 4k BMC selling for $4000 bucks and shipping in July, which will put pressure on others to follow.
 
Well, I guess that depends on what the camera is like exactly. Lots of first gen BMCC on sale right now from people who found out it wasn't for them.
 
Yep that's for sure. I think the two main reasons for that were 1.) some didn't find working with RAW pleasant or easy (since ProRes was only offered in 1920x1080) and 2.) some didn't know what they were getting into using an EF lens on a smaller than micro 4/3rds sensor size.

Well, there are probably other reasons too.
 
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Yeah I'm mostly just kidding,. honestly I'm just trying to drive the other guys crazy here who think 4k is crazy and there is no real purpose for it. (I tend to agree with them but it sure is fun telling them otherwise)
 
Arri's Product Manager Camera, Marc Shipman-Mueller, has an interesting take on 4K:

"4K, right now, is way overhyped," he said. "What's more important than resolution is overall image quality. Once you have that, you can upres [the images] to 4K, and they look spectacular."

http://www.studiodaily.com/2013/04/arri-says-dont-believe-the-4k-hype/

It might be prudent to take a moment and contemplate the fact that Mr. Shipman-Mueller does not work for a company that is under great pressure to sell a lot of TVs but instead works for a company that has been an industry leader in motion picture camera manufacturing for almost a century.

I don't doubt that 4K is the future for professional high quality motion imaging acquisition and an increasing share of motion image content exhibition. Any filmmaker working today has to realize this, analyze their individual business and artistic needs, and make a plan for this future. In my case, where most of my work is headed for the web, investing in an upgrade to 4k now is way too premature and I anticipate being able to continue producing 1080 content for at least another 2 to 3 years, if not longer. Realizing this kind of lets me take a deep breath, shrug off the massive gear awe that we are all experiencing right now due to recent camera introductions, put my head down and concentrate on the projects I have at hand, with the gear that I have.
 
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