4K HDR TV Sets Are Here...

T

TheDingo

Veteran
I knew that 4K HDR TV sets were coming out this year, but I did not expect them so soon.

Sony spammed my inbox this morning with a full line-up of 4K HDR TV sets starting from the $650 for a 49" LED set, all the way up to a $5,500 65" OLED model.

Sony's competition is right there with them, so unlike the short-lived fad of 3D TV, I think HDR TV is going to stick, and soon enough some of our clients are going to ask if we can shoot HDR video.

The Panasonic / Sony HLG ( Hybrid Log Gamma ) camera firmware updates can't come soon enough... :evil:
 
DLD said:
HDR sets have been around a while, including many well under $1,000 and capable of the HDR streaming.
Click to expand...

When HDR becomes the norm for consumers buying any new TV at the big-box stores (we are almost there now), then I think we are in for some big changes with how we shoot and produce our work. I fully expect to see clients asking about HDR production over the next year or so.
 
I'm fairly certain the Sony consumer OLED panels are manufactured by LG. I put a 55 LG '4K' OLED HDR(Dolby Vision & HDR 10) set in the bedroom last fall. I've streamed Man in the High Castle, it's 4K and HDR and it is a very interesting look. I've also streamed some VariCam(LT or 35, can't remember) material that was shot RAW and posted for HDR and it's pretty impressive, especially when you look at the footage on a computer and then watch the 4K HDR stream on a 4K HDR set.

If a client wants to shoot 'HDR', come on. My F55 can do it.
 
Run&Gun said:
I've also streamed some VariCam(LT or 35, can't remember) material that was shot RAW and posted for HDR and it's pretty impressive, especially when you look at the footage on a computer and then watch the 4K HDR stream on a 4K HDR set.
Click to expand...

I imagine that it's hard to go back to regular non-HDR playback once you get used to HDR displays.
 
TheDingo said:
When HDR becomes the norm for consumers buying any new TV at the big-box stores (we are almost there now), then I think we are in for some big changes with how we shoot and produce our work. I fully expect to see clients asking about HDR production over the next year or so.
Click to expand...
I would think that a "normal" HDR set will get its maximum dynamic range from deeper blacks rather than brighter whites, as whites seem too bright already. I had to dial the brightness down on my LED already.

Good piece by Art but I think video pros exaggerate the need for DR above, say, 10 stops.

https://www.provideocoalition.com/a-guide-to-shooting-hdr-day-1-what-is-hdr/


Run&Gun said:
I'm fairly certain the Sony consumer OLED panels are manufactured by LG ...
Click to expand...
It is but the OLED production is ramping up in all sort of place ("all sort" means China). Sony's OLED TV's are very pricey at the moment - 55" for $4K, 65" for $5,500.

BTW, a great site on all things OLED. https://www.oled-info.com/
 
Last edited:
DLD said:
I would think that a "normal" HDR set will get its maximum dynamic range from deeper blacks rather than brighter whites, as whites seem too bright already. I had to dial the brightness down on my LED already.

Good piece by Art but I think video pros exaggerate the need for DR above, say, 10 stops.

https://www.provideocoalition.com/a-guide-to-shooting-hdr-day-1-what-is-hdr/


It is but the OLED production is rmaping up in all sort of place ("all sort" means China). Sony's OLED TV's are very pricey at the moment - 55" for $4K, 65" for $5,500.

BTW, a great site on all things OLED. https://www.oled-info.com/
Click to expand...

I started the baseline set-up for my set on the "ISF Dark Room" profile. When you watch an HDR program, the set automatically switches over to it's own HDR profile. The blacks are, well... you know. And the whites will almost blind you. It literally lights up the entire room.
 
HDR is a great progression and will ultimately improve the quality of presentation for all. However I think we will go through a bit of a rough patch where the range will get pushed with negative effects. I've seen footage of a dark interior with a sconce where the sconce became so bright that it was distracting. Yes, it's cool that you can see detail in the highlights, but the relative levels were more showy than worthwhile. And I've also seen demos of displays in a pitch black room that literally hurt my eyes. Eventually, we'll find our stride with it all.
 
It looks like HDR sets will do more for those with bright rooms, where the bright sconce won't fade from a bright window on screen. That is no small feat but won't be of much concern to those who set up their home theater in a place fit for it.
 
TheDingo said:
Yes, but HLG is a HDR broadcast standard developed by the BBC and NHK, and I expect it will become a bigger deal later this year.
Click to expand...

As you suggest, the HLG standard has been created specifically for live broadcast like the 2020 Olympics where you want the cameras to output directly to the standard they are going to be viewed, so I don't see it's importance in the narrative / tvc / mv world where you can post your HDR workflow. Shooting HLG essentially bakes data for direct broadcast which is not what many of us want. It's akin to wide DR as offered by canons C100 and C300 which recorded above rec.709, but the results were baked, although Wide DR was a more simple approach. HDR also incorporates wide colour gamut, which is something I definitely don't want to be baking in during production, leaving the final process to post as we do now in rec.709 space.

Ultra HD Premium's HDR specification is >1000nits and I can tell you first hand that watching a large panel that does 1000 nits is about the max most consumers will want to go. It's very bright. 2000 nit screens will only serve to blind a lot of viewers unless theyre in a large space and a long way back from the screen. This means your 17+ stops available to 2000 nits screens will mostly be viewed around 13-14 stops in the HDR world, which in itself is a huge step up from where SDR maxes out. At 1000 nits that practical in the BG that served as motivation, if not shot properly, can end up taking the focus away from everything else as it is damn bright. A screen I highly recommend for HDR grading is http://www.panasonic.com/au/consumer/televisions/premium-ultra-hd-tvs/th-65dx900u.html, though I won't go into all the detail of that here.


I love HDR viewing. I've watched and rematched everything netflix has to offer in HDR, can't tell you much of what happened in the shows as I wasn't watching for content, but it makes clear where you need to be careful during production.
 
DLD said:
It looks like HDR sets will do more for those with bright rooms, where the bright sconce won't fade from a bright window on screen. That is no small feat but won't be of much concern to those who set up their home theater in a place fit for it.
Click to expand...

Yes and no. Whilst high nit screens devour a lot of reflection, theres still something there and watching HDR even in a dark room offers a lot when the roll from a deep black to a middle grey is a seamless transition of light as opposed to banding. I can watch content side by side, well more one after the other in HDR and then switch to SDR and the difference is noticeable that way.
 
Noel Evans said:
Shooting HLG essentially bakes data for direct broadcast which is not what many of us want.
Click to expand...

...What if your client wants HLG footage that requires as little post processing as possible, and is close to broadcast ready. I see this like shooting with a REC 709 camera profile that is more-or-less ready to go for REC 709 display with minimal editing, but in this case it's HDR footage. ( absolute quality takes a back seat to being HLG compliant with minimal effort )
 
TheDingo said:
...What if your client wants HLG footage that requires as little post processing as possible, and is close to broadcast ready. I see this like shooting with a REC 709 camera profile that is more-or-less ready to go for REC 709 display with minimal editing, but in this case it's HDR footage. ( absolute quality takes a back seat to being HLG compliant with minimal effort )
Click to expand...

If thats the case, you'd shoot on a camera capable of delivering HLG footage straight away, I could safely say that most broadcast HDR cameras will have this ability.
 
I would not worry too much about broadcasting, broadcasting is still trying to get out of the interlaced age.
I think the internet will be much quicker in adopting this new standard.
 
Well this is of interest and also concern.
I've transitioned to 4K and was hoping not to have to make another change soon.
Just as they are ingraining the buzzword "4K" into everyone's head I can see them also pounding in "HDR" and then clients start asking for that.
I can see how this will result in a noticeable image difference.

I'm just now learning how to produce HDR photos. I don't even know how to do HDR or HLG video.
Not looking forward to having to upgrade gear again.
Almost no one in my market asks for 4K. I wonder how long til they think they "need" HDR.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top