Just checking in on this to make sure... I am shooting 4k and downscaling to 1080p in FCP X. I am just dropping the footage in and exporting it out in 1080p or should I be making the timeline 1080p and dropping the footage in there and then exporting. Just checking in to see if it even matters. I just want to make sure I am getting as much as I can from this camera. Thanks guys
GH4 4k downscaled to 1080p in FCP X
- Thread starter Jason Rae
- Start date
Ebrahim Saadawi
Carbonite Member
Do you mean editing in a 4K timeline then exporting to 1080p vs. Downscaling and working in a 1080p timeline from the start?
If your computer can handle editing 4K natively then do all your editing in 4K then downscale at the last step (render). This will give you more resolution and stronger image for grading and gives you the ability to crop in/reframe. I wouldn't downscale to 1080p before editing unless my computer can't handle editing the native files.
If your computer can handle editing 4K natively then do all your editing in 4K then downscale at the last step (render). This will give you more resolution and stronger image for grading and gives you the ability to crop in/reframe. I wouldn't downscale to 1080p before editing unless my computer can't handle editing the native files.
Curnsie
Well-known member
I create a 1080p timeline in FCPx and then edit the 4k footage on that. I can then reframe, colour, etc if needed. I shoot a lot of slomo with the GH4 so this matches perfectly. I haven't noticed any advantage of editing on a 4k timeline in FCPx and then downscaling to 1080p on export.
I'm curious about this too, I'm reluctant to buy a new Mac Pro that can handle editing 4k in real time especially if theres no quality loss dropping it into a 1080 timeline. Also before I commit to a new Mac Pro I would like to see how the new Retina iMac's with a 5K display handle 4K in real time. Anyone have any comments on that.
stoneinapond
Veteran
I have to respectfully disagree. I don't see how reducing resolution up front and then further reducing resolution with post processing can be the same as editing in full resolution, and then exporting at lower resolutions.
While I haven't edited on the 5K iMac, I did take a finished UHD 4K video to an Apple Store and played it there. While my iMac will play 4K footage via QT, it occasionally stutters as the computer is downscaling in real time to display the footage on a 1080p screen. On the 5K, the image ran smoothly, but more importantly, it showed up details in the footage that I was unaware of while watching the same 4K footage on my iMac.
What I have noticed is that downscaling can up to a point sometimes hide faults in the original 4K footage - things like noise can be made less obvious and sharpness can increase. So if the footage is never going beyond 2K resolution, perhaps editing in 2K is an option where less stress on the computer is required.
The whole point of shooting 4k on the GH4 (assuming you're not delivering in 4K) is the, 1. Improved picture quality (little to no moire), denser grain (noise) pattern after downscaling. 2. Editing the footage in a 1080 timeline to have the ability to reframe (blowup) if needed without loss of image quality.
If you edit in a 4k timeline you will lose the ability to reframe (blow-up, reposition) without affecting image quality. This will negate one of the benefits of shooting in 4K.
If you edit in a 4k timeline you will lose the ability to reframe (blow-up, reposition) without affecting image quality. This will negate one of the benefits of shooting in 4K.
stoneinapond
Veteran
I don't know if this in relation to the 4.2.0 vs 4.4.0 discussion, but as far as I'm concerned, when you reframe/crop any footage, regardless of its origin, you will incur resolution loss.
No relation to 4.2.0. or 4.2.2.
If the origin of the footage (let's say in this case is UHD 4k 3840 X 2160 ) and you put it in a 1080 timeline you will need to scale the footage down to 50% to get the original full frame.
You can then scale up from 50% to 100% to reframe without losing image quality.
Why would scaling in this situation compromise image quality?
Curnsie
Well-known member
And I allow you to disagree...
As I said I shoot a lot of GH4 slomo so I don't see any point in editing 1080p on a 4k timeline - it would look worse that the method I use. Everyone's miles may vary.
Pixel peepers on your marks..
Ebrahim Saadawi
Carbonite Member
No, that's only if you output in 4K. You can reframe in a 4K timeline as much as you want and export to 1080p without loss.
I just believe that editing and colouring in the highest format produced by the camera is the best way to go (4K 100mpbs 4:2:0), then after you're done abusing the image downscale it to your lower-end format as suited. Nothing comes good from downscaling up-front unless you need editing speed.
If you edit your 4K footage in a 4K timeline and you want to blow up or reframe a shot you will be scaling the 4K footage beyond it's 100% setting. Any footage scaled beyond 100% will lose image quality and will begin to become soft depending on how much you scale it past 100%
This will still affect the final export even though the export is at 1080, granted you may not see the difference as much in the exported 1080 file but if your original image is scaled beyond 100% it is compromised. That's why it's best to edit 4K in a 1080 timeline if your delivery is going to be 1080.
Cosimo Bullo
Veteran
No, if you're going to output the 4k to 1080 at the end, then the effect would be the same @mmaller.
David Del Real
Well-known member
I sure hope all you FCPX users remember to set Spatial Conform from "Fit" to "None" and set your scaling to 50%. (that is if you're downsampling)
Cosimo,
I'd have to disagree with you. Explain to me why the effect is the same. Just because you are downscaling the 4K timeline to 1080 on export does not negate the upscaling of your 4K footage beyond it's 100% scaling. If the source of your export has been compromised (blowing up your source footage beyond 100%) then downscaling does not return it to it's original resolution. The downscaling export may help hide the softened blowup but it's also dependent on how much you have blown up your footage in first place. You can even get away with blowing up source footage to some degree in a native timeline meant for native export.
I'd have to disagree with you. Explain to me why the effect is the same. Just because you are downscaling the 4K timeline to 1080 on export does not negate the upscaling of your 4K footage beyond it's 100% scaling. If the source of your export has been compromised (blowing up your source footage beyond 100%) then downscaling does not return it to it's original resolution. The downscaling export may help hide the softened blowup but it's also dependent on how much you have blown up your footage in first place. You can even get away with blowing up source footage to some degree in a native timeline meant for native export.
Oh gosh.... I have not done that yet when editing the footage. I just put it on 1080p with the c100 footage and off we go. Would I need to do that if I am editing other 1080p footage as well or just when its stand alone gh4 footage Also is that a setting I can set and leave or turn that off and on when editing the gh4 footage.
If you've shot 4K footage and you're delivering 1080 It doesn't make a difference whether you put the footage on a 4K timeline and export to 1080 or put it on a 1080 timeline and export matching timeline specs. What matters is if you have scaled your 4K footage. Scaling your 4K footage in a 1080 timeline is fine as long as you generally don't go past 100%
The 4K footage in a 1080 timeline should be scaled back to 50% to encompass the full frame. Then only if you want you have the flexibility to scale the 4K footage up to a maximum of 100%
to be able to reframe the shot.
You can mix other native 1080 footage with 4K footage on a 1080 timeline, that does not matter. You just can't scale the 1080 footage without any loss of quality beyonds it's original framing.
The 4K footage in a 1080 timeline should be scaled back to 50% to encompass the full frame. Then only if you want you have the flexibility to scale the 4K footage up to a maximum of 100%
to be able to reframe the shot.
You can mix other native 1080 footage with 4K footage on a 1080 timeline, that does not matter. You just can't scale the 1080 footage without any loss of quality beyonds it's original framing.
tflak
Veteran
Why? Thanks.
EDIT: See you've just answered this. Apples and oranges really. Using "Fit" will properly scale. The key is to not upscale too much. As with anything. I find 150% is just fine when needed.
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