To suggest that a camera of this level of breakthrough or the people excited at it's development, lack imagination is pretty...silly, cocky, naive - choose your adjective, but it seems pretty valueless.
4k bmpcc
- Thread starter starcentral
- Start date
To suggest that a camera of this level of breakthrough or the people excited at it's development, lack imagination is pretty...silly, cocky, naive - choose your adjective, but it seems pretty valueless.
AndreeOnline
Veteran
Phones replaced my dream camera? Wait, what?
I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion, even if you were allowed to sample snippets of all the posts I ever posted on this, or other, forums.
I have actually explained elsewhere what I think would be ideal for me at the moment, which is short is: beefed up Canon XC-15 with high res FF sensor, a good codec, better screen and more NDs.
I don't think anyone is turning agains the idea that the BMDPCC4K isn't the perfect design. It's the concept of whining when you get so much for so little.
Steven Soderbergh
John Brawley
Well-known member
Yeah this ones still persisting.
Super sample HD from the full sensor size. Like all their other greater than HD cinema cameras.
JB
It's easy to call everything that does not agree with you whining or trolling. Everyone does it on forums. It's harder to get over this shallow emotional reaction and consider what could have been, strive for progress and improvement. But again, maybe the market is not ready for real progress, maybe a clunky DSLR looking thing is what pleases most. Maybe buzz words like "BIG SCREEN!!!" "XLR WITH PHANTOM POWER", "LEMO POWER SOCKET" are enough to convince most this is a pro camera even they don't make much sense considering the "walk around camera" it is marketed as....I'm fine with that while I express my opinion on how the engineering missed the boat... ESPECIALLY that the image is a real "pro" level based on the specs...
This is something some of the old timers may know, because it goes back to film camera eye piece viewfinders and their design...
What would it take to put an eye piece with something like a 45 degree angle on the back of this LCD, and maybe give the user somewhere between 4 and 6 inches of distance from the camera so you are clear of everything you may rig onto this? I know there are straight eye pieces/magnifiers that are available/will be available for the 5 inch LCD, so straight back is covered. Wouldn't having something like this make the camera more ergonomic for some users? Could probably make a 90 degree eye piece as well, but most of these are designed to loo into a camera EVF/optical viewfinder (I have several of these with limited success in use).
What would it take to put an eye piece with something like a 45 degree angle on the back of this LCD, and maybe give the user somewhere between 4 and 6 inches of distance from the camera so you are clear of everything you may rig onto this? I know there are straight eye pieces/magnifiers that are available/will be available for the 5 inch LCD, so straight back is covered. Wouldn't having something like this make the camera more ergonomic for some users? Could probably make a 90 degree eye piece as well, but most of these are designed to loo into a camera EVF/optical viewfinder (I have several of these with limited success in use).
Danielvilliers
Veteran
Some creatives have been waiting for decades or all their lives to first get affordable large sensor camera in 2008 and all the other attributes like DR, low light hight bitrate codec for nearly another decade. Unless you where some of Hollywood few this image esthetic where just some unattainable dream and you tell us to go back to small sensor camera, with bad lowlight DR and codec???
How would you deal with the touch screen ?
AndreeOnline
Veteran
But you know that’s not what this discussion is about right?
This discussion is that perfect musical performance on YouTube, that by any measure can be considered totally authentic and absolute top level by contemporary standards. But this thread isn’t about the 832774 likes, but the 8 dislikes.
It really doesn’t matter what someone puts on YouTube, you’ll always get the dislikes.
I don’t think the push back here is about the suggestions, it’s about the narrative.
combatentropy
Veteran
This is bizarre. I don't know why I have to argue that putting a screen on a hinge wouldn't drive up the price much.
I also don't know why buyers attack fellow buyers for asking too much. So what if they're wrong?
No, my perfect camera has actually simplified over time. Ten years ago, it had a built-in lens, a 5" screen, 4 XLRs, and 240 fps (https://www.combatentropy.com/a_cam_for_all_seasons). Today it has just a lens mount, 2 XLRs, a 4" screen, and 60 fps. A GH5 pretty much meets it if it had global shutter. In fact it would exceed it because I just want 2K. I don't want fancy electronics or mind control like some people's wish lists. I just want a solidly built, ergonomic, simple, manual camera. It gets a little closer every year.
The BMPC4K isn't it, not by a long shot. I am not really interested in it. But since I believe Blackmagic has the power to build my ideal camera today --- in fact all camera manufacturers do --- I am chiming in on what I see as low-hanging fruit.
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Yes I haven't been much of a follower with a corporate compliance mind set. My bad...:thumbsup:
Thomas Smet
Veteran
If it is that easy go out and do it yourself. You will make a killing.
Look I don't know much it would cost but neither do you. All I know is what we have had in the past. The fact and reality is no camera the size of a DSLR has ever had a full HD 5" articulated LCD. Whatever the reasons you and I will never know but the harsh reality is it just has not happened. All I know is it has never been done and thats as much evidence as we are going to get about the challenge of doing it. Your evidence is basically wishful thinking and wanting it to happen. I'm going off of previous experience where most DSLRs even struggle to get a 3" articulated screen on the camera with the exception of Panasonic. Panasonic has been invested in articulated screens from the very start of m43 so they have a ton of extra experience making it happen. Even then the GH5 is pushing like 1024 or 1280 resolution or something like that because it has been hard for Panasonic to just go all in and pack that thing with full HD or make it bigger.
BMD got us closer than anybody else ever has to make it actually possible to see what the heck we are shooting at full HD without the use of an external monitor. Can't you be happy that they managed to pull that off when nobody else has been able to? You are already getting tremendous value to have such a screen built in that its really a bonus. You know how many people are going to be madly in love with this camera even if it had no screen at all and they had to add a $189 monitor? A crap load. In this case raw and ProRes out value any potential short comings the camera may have for a lot of people. Especially when those missing capabilities can be easily solved with tools like a monitor or in the case of the lack of IBIS a shoulder rig or gimbal.
Look this camera isn't for everybody. I have said that a lot and I think we all need to be careful to not assume every Tom, Dick and Harry should go out and buy this camera. Unless one is a serious film maker and they know gaining raw is going to make a huge impact on what they deliver to the world they may in fact be better off not getting the Pocket and going with something like the GH5S. Even in the broadcast world the GH5S is likely a much better choice over the Pocket. The Pocket is far from the perfect camera but that doesn't mean its any more flawed than the Alexa is flawed for having a 2.8k sensor or the C200 is flawed for not having a 10bit codec in the camera. Its what the camera has and you either decide it fits your needs or you don't. I'm not sure how we can make this any simpler or why we always need to go in circles every time a new camera comes out.
these discussions are supposed to be about "this" camera and what "it" can do for us "today".
Bern Caughey
Veteran
Getty talks about full frame HD at the 5:45 minute mark of the following video, so hoping BM can deliver.
https://youtu.be/UDAdeYLHjSs
I would like to think they made controls for everything as well. If not I see it as a flaw in the design. GH2 has a touch screen, I never use it and use the controls to navigate everything.
He is not a camera manufacturer- BMD is. No one person can do that themselves. So it's not easy for him but it should be for BMD. It doesn't mean he can't possibly know the market better than BMD These discussions are about whatever we decide they are about related to this camera as long as we are respectful and stay on topic. Until we see (real) test images from the camera and final spec sheets we can't really tell much else about the camera can we? With BMD initial hiccups are to be expected (based on the past can't see that change suddenly BMD is not ARRI). How long it will take to iron them out is anyones guess. All we can really talk about is the form factor because it seems to be the final version. So we talk about it. Speculating what you can do with an image you haven't seen is even more far fetched....
Speaking of BMPCC4K design flaws.....;-)
vcassel
Veteran
Isn't this the real problem with this thread lately? Accusations of corporatism, being unimaginative, and being apologists. Kinda sucks. I'm actually really excited for this camera.
As well as calling someone stupid just because one does not agree with them. If you say it say it ALL or don't say it AT ALL. How is that respectful? I just stated what I don't like about the camera and how it could be improved upon. What is wrong with that? Why take it so personally? Why this tribal mentality? Is it not tribal mentality? If it's not tell me why not? And what is corporatism? Why is it an insult? We live and function in a "free market" economy. Isn't it corporatism? We are all part of it so why is it an insult? BMD is not a charity non profit so I do not expect them to lose money or they will have to close their doors. I just don't agree with the design choices they made. I'm also trying to explain the (technical) reasons why. What is wrong with that?
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vcassel
Veteran
I don't think anyone here is stupid. And even though I pointed something out, I'm not taking it personally. And I'm definitely not tribal in any respect. I just think this particular quibble has gotten a bit out of hand.
Danielvilliers
Veteran
It is extraordinary that we have the first company who are giving us an inbuilt monitor in a dslr size and form factor, which is actually good to focus with and people are complaining about this. Even so, that you can have a professional flip monitor like the smallhd focus that would cost even lower than the gh5. The size would still be very compact, like that of a typical dslr and flash or on camera led light. With this bmpcc 4k, my actual setup will be smaller because I would not have to use my atomos ninja flame as I would have the solid codec and proper display in same device.