4-cam comparison -- initial response

All this fuss will go away once prices on the P2 card goes down. Don't shoot HD unless you need to. If you need to: Gosh I feel bad for you. As said before there is no clear winner. Every camera sucks. There is no mass way to distribuate HD content until Blu-Ray and HD-DVD. Unless you are shooting for HD broadcast and Film. No one knows how the cameras compare when aired or blown up, right? TV won't even really accept HDV, right? Aren't there rules against using too much of the cameras? Lord knows how long it will take for these Blu-Ray and HD-DVD drives to become affordable. Lord knows how long it will take for more than 50% of America to have HD T.V.s.

Until then the safest bet, my friend, is to continue to shoot on your DVX100 and, when a shoot comes up demanding HD, ask your producer to get you the Panasonic Varicam or Sony CineAlta. If that's too much money, then find out if he has a P2 deck. I'm guessing he won't. Then you're really screwed.
 
Practically every laptop computer on the market is a P2 Deck. So is every firewire port or USB2 port. P2 doesn't need a deck, you can use a $50 card reader or you can use the camera itself as a card reader or you can use the PCMCIA slot on laptops.
 
philarno said:
dvxStephen said:
You can say to me, "Stop belly-aching. You're out of luck! Buy another camera!" That might ultimately be the solution. But I hate to give in and count myself out of such a promising technology.

And if I give up on the format how many others might for the same reasons? The main point is that the more Panasonic hears about this issue, the better the chance that they might come up with a solution.
Click to expand...

That's pretty true I know a lot of people in my age bracket (18-24) with dvxs who are ready(read want) to go HD....but can't, not with panasonic at least. So they're left sticking with the dvxs even longer which doesn't give panasonic any more money, or they take their money else where.

The dvx represented a completely different price point than the hvx. Now I know the Hvx is not the dvx's replacement because a new model dvx exists in the old one's price point still, but pretty much everyone I know that wants to lay down money for a new camera doesn't want to go SD, it just wouldn't make sense because you keep a camera like 3-4 years a lot of the time and everything is going HD really fast. Wow run on sentance.

A dvx in my province after taxes is 4,294.79 USD, an FX1 4,594.07 USD, and an hvx 6,989.85 USD. All this before even thinking about p2 cards or a laptop. Suddenly the sony looks very good. HD for 3 hundred more than a dvx, that's more along the lines of what I had originally expected to happen back when we first started hearing of a next generation. Post processing isn't all that bad in my tests.

I know tons of people mulling over that, myself included.

I know it's a lot to expect from panasonic right now but I thought this was going to be an HD dvx, this is quite a bit more than that.

I'll probably get the sony for now and come back to panasonic if I can (based on prices) in 1-2 years.

I'll probably get flamed for all that because I'm "wining" oh well I'm just voicing the opinion of what's going on in a lot of people's heads (especially in international markets) right now.
Click to expand...
 
Back when the Sony pd150 was popular, It was tough spending what I believe was $4,800. But then again, that was like 6 years ago when $4,800 was the old $5,900, or maybe I just have more extra cash to buy this sort of thing. In any case, I do remember how I would have felt paying more than I could comfortably afford.

Everyone needs to consider if they can afford this camera.
Where this camera would probably pull me into spending "more than I could afford" would be the fact that it would make my workflow so much easier than doing what I want to do, by any other means.

This camera is the only one made, that would, or even could stretch me out of my financial comfort zone.

I am just glad that these days, I am fortunate enough to be able to do this comfortably.
 
Brian J. Harris said:
FYI
www.dv.com has the Adam Wilt article regarding the 4 camera comparison.

Brian
Click to expand...

After all what Adam Wilt wrote what can I say? At the moment I stay strongly with my FX1E. My set up will include Vocas Matte Box+Redrock Micro M2 35mm adapter+incoming FireStore for direct HDD-IT Quicktime HDV file capture and that altogether will cost as HVX200E PAL with two 8GB P2 cards. About a picture quality I would not discuss it any more. Now for me everything is clear.

Barcelona_Beach_23_01_06.jpg


Sanjin Jukic shooting with Sony FX1E on the beach in Barcelona, January 23, 2006.
 
It is quite clear how the article should be read. No offense, but the way you read it seems predetermined - you saw what you wanted to see. Me - I buy the HVX any day of the week. BECAUSE of Wilt's article.
 
You're welcome Sanjin! And you can tell us your thoughts about all. I and many others, we appreciate your useful posts. You just must be careful with your words and not rating, please! That's all! You are a free man and this community is a free forum.
 
Well, I've seen better res chart clarity from the HVX200 from Kaku's testing:

Detail 0
http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx200/raw_screengrabs/scene6dtl0.jpg
http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx200/raw_screengrabs/scene1dtl0.jpg

Detail - 5
http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx200/raw_screengrabs/scene1dtl-5.jpg
http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx200/raw_screengrabs/scene6dtl-5.jpg

Maybe there just wasn't enough time? I know Kaku took about 3 hours just coming up with a few res chart shots on 1 HVX200 cam.

For comparison, res chart grabs from XL-H1:

24F and 30F modes:
http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx200/raw_screengrabs/XL-H1_24F_rez2_HD-20x.jpg
http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx200/raw_screengrabs/XL-H1_30F_rez2_HD-20x.jpg

60i mode (Much better looking than the F modes and clearly more res than the HVX200, but you can also see slight Mpeg2 blocking)

http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx200/raw_screengrabs/XL-H1_60i_rez2_HD-20x.jpg

If the XL-H1 wasn't so dang massive in length, I could possibly switch my decision, but the HVX is still in the lead.
 
holyzoo said:
Well, I've seen better res chart clarity from the HVX200 from Kaku's testing:

Detail 0
http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx200/raw_screengrabs/scene6dtl0.jpg
http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx200/raw_screengrabs/scene1dtl0.jpg

Detail - 5
http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx200/raw_screengrabs/scene1dtl-5.jpg
http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx200/raw_screengrabs/scene6dtl-5.jpg

Maybe there just wasn't enough time? I know Kaku took about 3 hours just coming up with a few res chart shots on 1 HVX200 cam.

For comparison, res chart grabs from XL-H1:

24F and 30F modes:
http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx200/raw_screengrabs/XL-H1_24F_rez2_HD-20x.jpg
http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx200/raw_screengrabs/XL-H1_30F_rez2_HD-20x.jpg

60i mode (Much better looking than the F modes and clearly more res than the HVX200, but you can also see slight Mpeg2 blocking)

http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx200/raw_screengrabs/XL-H1_60i_rez2_HD-20x.jpg

If the XL-H1 wasn't so dang massive in length, I could possibly switch my decision, but the HVX is still in the lead.
Click to expand...

It's not a race, though.

That report was a VERY open report. It wasn't biased at all and it shouldn't be read with bias.

They did what they could in the time that they could, and you know what? The same thing came out of it that everyone knew or SHOULD know in the first place:

They all produce a picture that's acceptable enough to start making your films with. No sense in bothering with it until the REAL movies start coming.

So, when the HVX ships, get one based on what you want and show us what you can do with it.

:thumbsup:
 
Mauric_Alv said:
what 's your beef with Panasonic products ?
Click to expand...

Me? I have no beef with Panasonic products, at all.

Our company owns a DVX100a and has rented more than one for production purposes. 35mm adapters as well.

I used to own a Panasonic AG-DVC7 that I played around with for six months before reselling for FULL price. I enjoyed toying with it, though I never made a serious short with it or anything.

So, I have nothing against Panasonic or any other company. Hating a brand is silly, I used to do that when I was fifteen, you remember? Sega Vs. Super Nintendo

I just think that the camera shootout should be looked at without bias towards another one. The article even states that people want to outright hate on the Canon (not verbatim, but basically).

If it's a great camera, it's a great camera -- regardless of brand.
 
Kholi said:
It's not a race, though.
Click to expand...

I think it becomes a race regarding purchase decisions.

Kholi said:
That report was a VERY open report. It wasn't biased at all and it shouldn't be read with bias.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I'm just saying I've seen better resolution from the HVX than what I'm seeing in the report clips posted so far.

Kholi said:
So, when the HVX ships, get one based on what you want and show us what you can do with it.
Click to expand...

Yep, certainly, unless I switch to the XL-H1. :D
 
I just saw the res strip video. OMG! The H1 is a truly a mini f900. You know Canon had Sony's f900 in the crosshairs of it's Cannons....

However, when all is said, the HVX has a very pleasing film like image, and a lot of bang for the buck, as well the future of tapeless production today.....

This kind of microscope analysis is great for us technical DP/Director types, but once the film is made no one ever notices these differences. When backed 8 feet away from a big 60" HDTV, it will all look the same to the viewer.

My verdict is all the cameras rock. They all just offer a slightly different colors on the palette to paint with. There is no wrong choice, just a different one..




Michael Pappas
Arrfilms@hotmail.com
PappasArts & Arrfilms Main site

CONTACT VIA AOL INSTANT MESSENGER
AT { PAPPASARTS2 }


XLH1 and HVX200 frame grabs and news here:
http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms

http://www.PappasArts.com
http://www.Myspace.com/PappasArts
 
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