4-cam comparison -- initial response

Actually, I'd just be happy if Sanjin would stop feeling the need to remind me what an FX-1 looks like with a huge picture.
 
SJUSER said:
I am talking about the BUDGET options. If I would have to spent more money I would go to HIGHER HD CAM CLASS as I said before. Acquisition is the most important thing but if you are indie and cost you more than 10K per cam than you could ask for a better gear. PAY MORE, GET MORE but not in the case of XL H1, HVX and HD100 compared with FX1E. Than you should ask for 2/3' cams like Varicam, Viper etc.

SJUSER
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http://www.sanjinjukic.com/index_panasonicHD_P2.html
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What are you talking about? The XL H1, HVX200 and HD100 are clearly better than the FX1 in every way except image noise (and possibly the LCD screen!).

As you go up the price scale the quality jump becomes exponentially smaller compared to the increase in cost. A $1,000 camera may well have twice the image quality of a $500 camera. But a $100,000 won't have 100x the image quality of the $1,000 camera.

You have to decide your budget and buy or rent the best camera for the job.
 
Thanks Barry & Company for your efforts on our behalf!

It would be interesting to learn (when the final results are available) if, or how many, people decide on a different camera (than what they are presently considering) based on the "shoot out". Perhaps a poll will be in order?
 
3 Cheers for the testers!!!!!

3 Cheers for the testers!!!!!

I just want to add my voice to give kudos to all who made this possible. I can't wait to seee the results.... I like shanon's idea of posting clips and having people vote without knowing which camera was which. I think it would be good for a laugh.

THANKS!!!!
 
Great work so far, Barry and company! We should all be really grateful for all the work you guys have been doing.

I can personally vouch for the initial JVC comments. I too was deciding between the HD100 and HVX200, but was pressed to get the HD100 because of scheduling issues. My initial plan was to sell it afterwards, but now I'm beginning to reconsider that after having it for a week. I really like the latitude it has. It's allowing me to make creative use of exposure, whereas before (with the GL1) I was constantly fighting blown out highlights.

Looking forward to the rest of the results. Make sure you guys get some rest too. No need to kill yourselves for us rabble. :)
 
I think SJ is making a decent point, but just in a bad way :)

It seems like all these cameras can be stuck in the "better than DV, not as good as 2/3" HD."

The FX1 is a damn good "bang for the buck," but if you can afford a few K more, you'll get a little more. Personally I want and can afford a little more, like XLR inputs.

Audiences will have a job to see any difference which ever one of these you use. If you are planning a top quality 35mm blowup, don't use one of these anyway. If you are spending all that money on a blow up, get a better camera to start! If you are shooting for the small screen, people just don't notice the quality difference most of the time.

Well, that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it :laugh:
 
"Well, that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it "

Then there's isn't much point discussing it, right?

Truth is, there IS a big difference in budget by using one of these cams or, say, a viper for a feature. Either way you have to pay the blow-up, but in the case of the Viper ALL the posproduction will be a lot more expensive.

And I truly believe that cameras like the HVX are blowup-able. While I think that a stablishing shot by the sony cameras hardly won't stand a blow up, I thnk that the panassonic will offer enough resolution for such a thing
 
mmm said:
I think SJ is making a decent point, but just in a bad way :)

It seems like all these cameras can be stuck in the "better than DV, not as good as 2/3" HD."

The FX1 is a damn good "bang for the buck," but if you can afford a few K more, you'll get a little more. Personally I want and can afford a little more, like XLR inputs.

Audiences will have a job to see any difference which ever one of these you use. If you are planning a top quality 35mm blowup, don't use one of these anyway. If you are spending all that money on a blow up, get a better camera to start! If you are shooting for the small screen, people just don't notice the quality difference most of the time.

Well, that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it :laugh:
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Maybe I am doing it in a bad way. But nobody should to be angry because of it. I AM NOT ANY MASTER AUTHORITY about the cam. It is just about one opinion that maybe is going to be changed after all those testings including Barry and Co. test results that is coming up soon, Mike Curtis's tests later on, etc. Keep cool.



SJUSER
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http://www.sanjinjukic.com/index_panasonicHD_P2.html
 
First and foremost, thanks to the folks who conducted the test. MMM I'm sure everyone here would love to shoot their project on the Varicam or CineAlta or even the Viper, but in reality, these 1/3" cameras can give you really good images. Definitely not on the 2/3" level but still not bad and I've seen really good prints from DV to 35 blowups so the increase in resolution should make prints much better. I think if there were a HD to 35 blowup comparison with all these cameras some may fall off the cliff and others may ascend to the sky. Engineers usually can tell which of these cameras transfer best. I think with all of our hope and expectations for a "dream camera" that the film transfer could be considered the ultimate test and holy grail for 1/3" HD cameras.
 
SJUSER said:
That what I have got with my tests and it is my opinion/prognosis. Canon-resolution, HVX-variable frame rates-IT workflow, JVC-mid-price/performer and Sony FX1E THE OVERALL price/performance WINNER.
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Personally I add (in a big way) 24 progressive options into your equation.

SJUSER,

If you are looking for people to agree with you so you can justify the purchase of your camera this is probably not the place to be (the name of the site is DVXuser for goodness sake). You seem to really NOT want the Canon or HVX to be "worth it" in terms of price performace so you can still feel like you have the "WINNER" camera. Don't do that. It's unhealthy.

You have a camera that you like and enjoy using. GREAT! Why log on here and listen to people talk everyday about why the HVX is going to be so great and works so much better than the Sony? I would hate that. And why then start to debate them on it?

I'm not saying you don't have the "overall winner" camera in your possesion right now FOR YOU. But for general population there is no "overall winner." What do you want? What do you need it for? What is your preference?

Sony works best for you and is at the right price. GREAT! But don't tell us it's the overall winner because I actually REALLY like the variable frame rates, I like tapeless workflow, I like progressive capture, and I like the color and look of the HVX. Since the noise is not some big "issue", FOR ME the HVX is the overall winner. But other people will like removeable lenses, HD-SDI out, and FOR THEM the Canon is the overall winner.

Don't rain on the Rose Parade just because your like the Macy's Parade.
 
I did not talk about the "religious values", I talked about the budget values. I hope all those tests will finally put the cards on the table and everybody can see it clearly. The logic of this GAME is to start and to put first on the table 3K and than you will get something. And if you would like like to get more you should be very careful now. They say you should put 11K on the table. And you think, you observe again, re-think and than you see it. And you ask: "Why I should put 11K because I expected to get more than for 3K? To be honest I expected 3-4 times more for that but I see that would not get it. Maybe I had a dream and than for 11K I expected the values that I have to pay about 100K. Hmmm... I thought that I was sure to get them for 11K. But unfortunately not. And than why should I spent 11K because 3K gives me all what is possible to get. I decided to not enter in this 11K tricky game. When I would need the values that I found in 100K than I should look to get-rent it and fulfill my dreams.

Maybe this could help to BROKE some "religious" DOGMAS.

SJUSER
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http://www.sanjinjukic.com/index_panasonicHD_P2.html
 
First of all my thanks for doing all the work in testing these cameras. :thumbsup:

It's starting to look like no camera will be at the top of the list for every parameter. Any one of the cameras will do well in some parameters and not as well in other parameters.

So we are back to selecting a camera on features/parameters that are important to us, BUT what is important to one person is NOT important to another. Even after all the tests are in, the debate over the "best camera" will never die.


Bob Diaz
 
SJUSER said:
Canon-resolution, HVX-variable frame rates-IT workflow, JVC-mid-price/performer and Sony FX1E THE OVERALL price/performance WINNER.

SJUSER
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Oh please, you make it sound like you were there and know the results.
Apparently, you need to read Barry's post again.
 
Just to clear up what I meant, sure you can do a filmout from any of these cameras. I just don't think there will be a massive step up moving between them. For that you need to go to the next level. Film outs and cinema distribution is so expensive that is seems silly to not spend a little more renting a better camera. A Viper requires a far more expensive workflow, but an F900/750 or Varicam isn't all that bad.

Obviously some films like to deliberately use cheap cameras for effect, like 28 Days Later.

For example, these cameras are the Dodge Vipers and Porsches of the camera world... They'll go around a track damn fast, but you can't pit them against an F1 racing car :)
 
To: Sjuser

To: Sjuser

Your logic is going to fail here, because you are locking onto your values as the standard. IF lowest price for a camera to shoot HD is the key parameter, no question Sony wins. Is that the only possible reason for picking a camera? NO!!!

To me, true progressive, flexibility (many modes of operation), VariCam, NO Dropouts, DVCPRO50 support, and a NON-MPEG compression are key points. Am I willing to spend 2x to 3x over the Sony Camera for a system (Camera + P2 Cards) that meets my needs and wishes? YES!!! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

I respect the fact that you feel that the Sony is the best camera (winner) for you, but it's a big world and we don't all think the same.


Bob Diaz
 
Forgive my question, but shouldn't the HVX be noticeably sharper than any of the other cameras with pans/zooms/dolly/jib shots? Due to the DVCPROHD vs HDV compression.
Obviously, I have found with static shots the HDV looks great but once you hand hold or start moving the camera it looks very soft...
Any feedback or comments?

Brian Broz
 
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