36-bit Uncompressed Capture w/DVX100A

Re: 36-bit Uncompressed Capture w/DVX100A

Looks pretty good....but if the DVX has a 12 bit DSP...how can it be 36 bit...I guess if each A/D were 12 bit and it bypassed the DSP...well maybe it makes sense.
 
Re: 36-bit Uncompressed Capture w/DVX100A

What I'd like to see. is a lighting set up on someone and clip of a nice short scene.
 
Re: 36-bit Uncompressed Capture w/DVX100A

I'm impressed with the images! I wonder what the price of the software will be?
 
Re: 36-bit Uncompressed Capture w/DVX100A

The still is about 4.6 MB... how i´m going to suport that? it will be awesome machine!
 
Re: 36-bit Uncompressed Capture w/DVX100A

"but if the DVX has a 12 bit DSP...how can it be 36 bit..."

The 12 bit is introduced when the image is compressed to tape. Taking the video straight out of the camera, you can capture it in 32 bit, as you're not going to tape but to the camera's outputs.

That's what I gather from reading all the data on the web site.
 
Re: 36-bit Uncompressed Capture w/DVX100A

[quote author=ddh link=board=nws;num=1109794119;start=0#3 date=03/02/05 at 14:35:57]I'm impressed with the images! I wonder what the price of the software will be?[/quote]

It's a software and harware package that will require minor modification of the DVX inside. One of the designers stated today that they plan to offer the product for less than the camera which is good news.
 
Re: 36-bit Uncompressed Capture w/DVX100A

[quote author=mr._guiyotinne link=board=nws;num=1109794119;start=0#4 date=03/02/05 at 17:01:11]The still is about 4.6 MB... how i´m going to suport that? it will be awesome machine![/quote]

The raw footage is processed with their SculptorHD software into any format which you can usually export to from FCP (which is what I use). This means you can export the footage as uncompressed individual TIFF frames, or a DVCPROHD clip, or any other format you already work with. After that, I'll be loading it into FCP/Combustion just like I would any other file.

These guys may have just kept me from going HDV and leap-frogged my DVX right into 4:4:4 space. I'm no expert, but this is exciting and puts me in the game in an affordable way.
 
Re: 36-bit Uncompressed Capture w/DVX100A

The dynamic range in that image is pretty awesome. There's a ton of details in the shadow. I'm more and more impressed.
 
Re: 36-bit Uncompressed Capture w/DVX100A

The 12 bit figure quoted is not the data width of the DSP, rather it is the output resolution of the A>D converter. There are two basic types of DSPs used in commercial products like the DVX, fixed and floating point. The data paths of these DSPs are usually either 24 or 32 bits wide, however the internal accumulator is often much wider (48 bits or greater) to handle the output of the MAC (multiply and accumulate) instructions. In digital cameras (still or motion) the output of the CCDs is an analog signal resulting form the quantity of light reaching each sensor element. Being an analog signal, it has an infinite (theoretical, limited by things such as noise) resolution (though limited dynamic range, limited by the clipping level), when it is quantized (digitized) it is bounded by the converters architecture to a given range of numerical values (256 levels for an 8 bit system, 4096 levels for a 12 bit system). The processing of the output of the A>D converters by the DSP is after the quantization (conversion) and is used to fit the data into the miniDV format as well as add many of the features that this or any camera offers (gama & color correction, etc). The system is actually fairly simple in theory, but due to the processing speed requirements (a trade off versus power consumption) is somewhat complex to execute. What the Andromeda system is doing is intercepting the output of the A>D converters and formatting the data into a structure that can be saved (recorded) to an HDD device. Since the bit and data clocks are still being provided by the cameras own circuitry, the sample rate is controlled by the cameras settings; they are just intercepting the data before it reaches the compression engine (DSP). Theirs is a practical approach as it effectively leaves the basic camera intact.
 
Re: 36-bit Uncompressed Capture w/DVX100A

Okay, I'm feeling lazy today. How much disc space will be required for a 60 sec. clip out of this setup?
 
Re: 36-bit Uncompressed Capture w/DVX100A

Hmm... if one frame is 4.6 MB, and there are 24 frames in a second, that means 1440 frames per minute.  1440 * 4.6 = 6624 MB, or 6.6 GB per minute.   ;D

EDIT: Their software seemes to have the option to automatically compress the input (eg, to DVCPRO HD).
 
Re: 36-bit Uncompressed Capture w/DVX100A


J. Pierterra : "The price will be at/under the price of a DVX. We are trying to make this as low as possible, but that's the ballpark."
 
Re: 36-bit Uncompressed Capture w/DVX100A

[quote author=Chris_Mueller link=board=nws;num=1109794119;start=0#11 date=03/03/05 at 10:27:24]Hmm... if one frame is 4.6 MB, and there are 24 frames in a second, that means 1440 frames per minute. 1440 * 4.6 = 6624 MB, or 6.6 GB per minute. ;D

EDIT: Their software seemes to have the option to automatically compress the input (eg, to DVCPRO HD).[/quote]

Okay, so my 1 Tb drive could take on ~2.5 hours in the uncompressed format. I think Vegas could render that on my athlonXP 2800+ w/1gig Ram in about 311 days if I didn't do a lot of FX.
;)
 
Is this thing really going to happen?

Is this thing really going to happen?

Barry, can you chime in on this topic?

This idea has really captured my imagination... Is it really going to happen? Does anybody here know anything more about it than what's on their website?

IMO, if they can hit the following points, they'll have a winner on their hands:

1. Streamline the workflow - capturing and later compressing this RAW footage may be too unwieldy (too much data and too slow) for most common editing setups. It would undoubtedly make my iMac G4 weep like a little schoolgirl.

2. Make it extremely reliable - most of those screen caps show a significant amount of "happy pixels." Something on their site says that this has been addressed, but we'll see. No doubt Panasonic has some noise-cancelling DSPs or algorithms inside, but these guys have bypassed it.

3. Keep the costs reasonable - I want them to make money for their hard work and ingenuity, but the window is closing fast for this system to be viable and "best of breed", considering all the latest and greatest HD toys coming down the pike.

4. Show some FOOTAGE!!! Otherwise, this is merely vaporware, as so much aftermarket homebrew DVX stuff inevitably turns out to be. (Micro35s, follow focus, etc...)

Still, I am totally excited about this development. Anybody who knows anything about this project not already mentioned here or on their website, please enlighten us!

BTW, are the camera manufacturers (Panny, Sony, Canon, JVC) at all worried about developments like this? I know that larger production companies wouldn't bother with such a hack, but certainly the smaller ones would bite if the right reliability and comfort levels were established.

And I am aware of at least one other project that's attempting to Open Source the creation of an HD camera. Can't remember the link right now, but it's around here somewhere.

Think about it - This represents the holy grail of Indy filmcos (720P HD, 32-Bit uncompressed color, CHEAP)

Anyway... My $0.02
 
Re: 36-bit Uncompressed Capture w/DVX100A

I think if anything, this will tell companies that rhyme with Pony that film makers want uncompressed, or less compressed HD, not HDV.
 
Re: Is this thing really going to happen?

Re: Is this thing really going to happen?

[quote author=wjm link=board=nws;num=1109794119;start=0#14 date=03/03/05 at 17:52:04]Barry, can you chime in on this topic?[/quote]
I've looked at it briefly. While it looks interesting, I can't say much about something that is, as of now, still vaporware. I've asked to be put on the beta test list, and they did send a confirmation, but I haven't heard from them since that initial request several months ago.

I think they're doing some amazing things, but I don't know how practical it will be. As far as I know, nobody's seen anything yet, as far as actually working with it, just a few screen shots, right?

I applaud the innovation going on here, but I really don't devote much time to it until they have a field-testable unit, so it can be evaluated and determined just what is actually being offered.
 
Re: 36-bit Uncompressed Capture w/DVX100A

I'm no R&D techy, but as I understand it, the User (you or I) can decide to work in whatever format we choose that is Quicktime supported. For example, last NAB04, Panasonic and Apple heralded being able to move DVCProHD via firewire to FCP. Now, for me, that was a great announcement, but I can't afford the Varicam or the 1200A HD Deck that they're promoting. Up to this point plans were to rent the Varicam and Deck when needed and do HD. But hey, I'm using my DVX100A in 24pAdv every chance I get. Since I got it last March that's the only mode I've used it in. I haven't had a chance to shoot in 30 or 60 at all.

Juan (one of the developers of the Andromeda device and Sculpture HD software) stated that when I'm using Andromeda to capture I have the ability to set the export of what has been captured to whatever format I choose. For me, at this point, considering the file size and quality of the DVCProHD codec I would to go that route for my drive space and quality considerations. The options are open though. That's exciting and all on my DVX for less than the camera. I don't see the big boys offering us anything on this level at that approx price point.

Now, with the increase in quality there will have to be upgrade for those of us who have been stuck in DV mode by default, but that's a good problem. Good scopes/waveform monitors and HD monitors. Everything all of a sudden comes into play. All with this DVX, man. I can't get over this! Is it too good to be true or what? The images are real though.
 
Re: 36-bit Uncompressed Capture w/DVX100A

This is what raw footage looks like. Then look at the color corrected pix.
 
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