35mm Adapter Shootout

Two questions:

1) Are you recording on the camera or using the HD-SDI output (uncompressed)?

2) Are you shooting a sinusoidal MTF chart? You can get one for free on the web.
 
DavidNJ said:
Two questions:

1) Are you recording on the camera or using the HD-SDI output (uncompressed)?

2) Are you shooting a sinusoidal MTF chart? You can get one for free on the web.
Click to expand...

1)... mostlikely ProRes 422 HQ.

2)... yeah I have a MTF chart... gotta love kinkos.
 
Barry_Green said:
Coming late to this party, but I've got a question for jstunzi... If it's a test of adapters, why would you even have two different cameras involved? For a test to have validity you typically want to minimize as many variables as possible. Having conducted shootouts before, I know how people will ask and beg and plead for more and more to be added, but frankly it seems like the complexity of the test increases by the square of the # of products being compared. So evaluating one product = 1 level of difficulty; comparing two products means it's 4x as difficult, comparing 3 products makes it 9x as difficult, etc...

So... why not pick one camera (maybe an HPX3000 or F950 using the Letus or Brevis relay?) and then compare all the adapters on the same set, same lighting, same camera body, same recording format, etc... and that way, the only differences would be due to the adapters themselves...
Click to expand...

there is validity in using ex1 along with the hvx200 or whatever panny cam you choose. it seems that it is trickier to get an adapter to play nice with an ex1 than with most other cams. i think knowing whether or not a given adapter is ex1 friendly and which one is most ex1 friendly is very valuable info.

same goes for the panny cam. maybe one adapter works better with the panny cam than any other adapter.

and since the hvx200/hpx170 and ex1/ex3 are really the major players in this market, both should be represented if the tester is willing.

i am looking forward to the results!!!!
 
Haha.... I figured someone would say that eventually. But if you want a good test... that inclludes B4 relays... it'll be worth the wait!
 
I wouldn't choose ProRes because I see a really heavy degradation in sharpness...

Since you will have a MacPro desktop on set, grab the 422 uncompressed... or you can use the Photoshop and grab only still frames from a Blackmagic or AJA card... at least for the res charts... if you have a laptop with Aja IO use the Photoshop method... for all the rest the ProRes is OK...
 
Evangelos Achillopoulos said:
I wouldn't choose ProRes because I see a really heavy degradation in sharpness...
..
Click to expand...

What? I thought Pro Res didn't degrade the image at all.
If this is true why does everyone say to render in Pro Res or shift all your HDV or for that matter any Media into Pro Res?

What media are you starting with?
I've been told that rendering or transcoding to Pro Res was fine unless you were shooting in HDCAM SR and then you needed Pro Res HQ.

Sorry if this is the wrong area for this discussion but since it came up.....

- Lenny Levy
 
When I transcode RED footage to prores there is a definite down grade in resolution... I have notice it in AVC-Intra also... you can see it if compare original with prores... the loss is not huge but it is visible... so since we try to measure resolution I thing a still uncompressed is enough...
 
Glad to hear you are still on this.

What could you have access to if you went ahead and shot this thing next week?
 
Evangelos,

Are you looking at Pro Res or Pro Res HQ?

I would expect a little loss from the RED to ordinary Pro Res. I don't know much about AVC Intra, but that's more of a surprise , esp sinc eyou have to cut it as Pro Res in FCP as I understand it.

What image are you looking at to judge this BTW?

Lenny
 
As I said, if you have a card like BMD or AJA, both allow thru quicklime to grab single frames, either from photoshop or from their applications, this frames are totally uncompressed... since to evaluate, an ISO res chart, all you need is a single frame grabs, I don't see the reason why not to exclude all the "compression" factors...
 
USLatin said:
Glad to hear you are still on this.

What could you have access to if you went ahead and shot this thing next week?
Click to expand...

Clarify this statement a little. Are you talking about cameras, adapters, or what? This is a huge logistical nightmare to organize... especially without compensation. I may have to buy/rent some of the adapters since some of the adapter companies aren't so willing to be compared. Not only that... as seen earlier in this thread... everyone wants to see them compared on their camera. All this argument about compression too. I want to see pictures of what you're talking about Evangelos.

I will say this... with the exception of the B4 relays... all of these adapters will be compared on two cameras: EX-3 and HVX200.

You're going to get still images of charts at various settings... and one or two scene setups which you will get video of. It'll be posted to Vimeo and my blog.


And to throw a wrench into the cogs here... I'm not labeling footage initially. So people can give an honest unbiased opinion of the images.
 
Joseph Stunzi said:
All this argument about compression too. I want to see pictures of what you're talking about Evangelos.
Click to expand...

You can do it your self... just convert to ProRes HQ a high res image and compare it to the original... its easy... On the other hand if everything is going to be measured in the same way I don't have a problem...

What I'm asking is "scientifically accurate", either you understand it and you do it or you don't...
 
Joseph Stunzi said:
I'm not labeling footage initially. So people can give an honest unbiased opinion of the images.
Click to expand...

Smart move Joseph.

And yeah, I´m with Evangelos. Grabing them uncompressed is mandatory to get valid results. It would be a shame after all the work and time you spend, to spoil your efford with lossy codecs.


Frank
 
Joseph... screw worrying about the cameras so much. Best case scenario you use a 170 and an EX-1. But one camera will do and in that case it should be the EX-1 for sharpness.

Adapter wise if you have the LEX, Ultimate, M2, M2encore, SGpro, SGblade, G35 and Brevis with their elements then you have them all.
 
Roberto,

You're forgetting a whole slew of adapters. The P&S Mini35 , M8M 35mm, Handy35, Apefos, RNG35, Twoneil, Ikord, JAG35, ProDof, i-35HD, EnCinema 35... and I'm sure there's a few more.

You're getting an EX-3 and a HVX-200. No HPX170. The HVX-200 is simply in there to show a 1/3" sensor. I don't want the larger optics of the EX series to cause someone to misjudge an adapter for their smaller camera.

Once again, I'm putting my money, time, and effort into this project. So I urge everyone to be patient as I'm providing a slew of information and analysis to you free of charge!

Evangelos... send me an email so we can talk about having your products in the mix.
 
I had a thought, does someone want to organize some sort of pool to help Joseph offset his costs? I'm in the market for an adapter for my HMC150, so I'd be happy to chip in something given the service Joseph is performing for all of us.
 
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