350: Anybody happy with the zoom and controller? Plus 2 more issues.

Well, I just went down a rabbit hole of watching about 40 CX350 videos on YouTube and can see there will be some challenges using it. I was hoping the AF would be more reliable.

My main concern is burned out highlights on Caucasian skin, I saw it on many videos (bridges of noses, bald heads, cheek bones, etc.) so I think I will have to research knee settings, etc. I will need to make a scene file that can handle most situations because I tend to get doc jobs where I move really fast, I can't menu dive. Much of my work will not be graded so I have to bake in a pleasant look, color palette, DR.

I always expect some transmission loss when I zoom in too far. The C100 had noticeable click stops when I rolled exposure because I couldn't afford to Duclos my lenses, so the 350 will be an improvement. I am too poor for cine lenses. I bought an optically clear filter to protect the front element.

If the EVF sucks I can buy something from Small HD and have it on an articulating arm. I'd like something larger than what's provided. I'll see when I get the Zacuto thingy if that helps me see better, but I have 66 year old eyes now. I also need to quickly take the camera off the rig, strip it down to be inconspicuous, I film kids a lot for fundraisers and need to blend in, or I have to sneak around without permits so I have to make it as small and non pro looking as possible sometimes.

In sum, I am excited but need to figure out how to avoid that highlight blow out I see in many of the "tests". How could so many cameramen run into the same problem? Maybe because they just unboxed it, ran outside, shot. I will look for threads here to see if folks solved this. I'll see if any of Barry's videos address this. One frequent poster here PM'd me:

"The image is a little hot on the highlights. Meaning when I first started using it my eyes were always drawn to white objects in the frame. I run the strongest knee possible as well as white clipping to try and tame this. I hate the 'hot whites' look as it screams consumer image to me."

That's what I'm worried about...

So that is what I will work on first, taming hot spots, but I'm waking up at 3AM to go to Mexico for a week and I will try not to think about anything besides having a good time!

Hasta la vista,

Ned
 
All,

I have a few comments on post # 20 concerning Zoom and LANC. Firstly, we had a summertime firmware update that improved Zoom performance. Please make sure you’ve updated your camera - https://eww.pass.panasonic.co.jp/pro-av/support/content/download/EN/ep2main/soft/cx350/0111cx350.htm

Regarding point 5 / LANC control, please note that the CX350, as well as EVA1, support LANC control. Our previous camcorders (still being sold), such as the AG-DVX200, AG-UX180, AG-AC160 and others were analog based control. I just state this to point out that the CX350 isn’t compatible with previous controllers used on our older handheld camcorders.

Varizoom, Libec and Manfrotto offer LANC controllers that are compatible with the CX350. For example, when you go to the Varizoom site, the LANC controller page has the VZROCK and VZSTEALTH and others, which support LANC and are CX350 compatible. Each of these three manufacturers have tested select LANC controllers with the CX350. They are listed in the product brochure. And our factory has checked the models, too. https://pro-av.panasonic.net/en/sales_o/broch_pdf/ag-cx350.pdf

Varizoom LANC controllers: https://www.varizoom.com/product-category/lens-controls/lanc-for-sony-canon-panasonic/

Libec ZFC-L: http://www.libecsales.com/products/remote_controls/ZFC-L.html

Manfrotto MVR901: https://www.manfrotto.com/us-en/clamp-on-remote-for-panasonic-and-lanc-mvr901ecpl/


Steve Cooperman
Senior Product Manager
Broadcast, Cinema, Pro Video Systems
Panasonic
 
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Just got back from vacation, I will test the camera a lot this week and get back to you shortly.

Thanks,

Ned
 
Steve Cooperman said:
All,

I have a few comments on post # 20 concerning Zoom and LANC. Firstly, we had a summertime firmware update that improved Zoom performance. Please make sure you’ve updated your camera - https://eww.pass.panasonic.co.jp/pro-av/support/content/download/EN/ep2main/soft/cx350/0111cx350.htm

Regarding point 5 / LANC control, please note that the CX350, as well as EVA1, support LANC control. Our previous camcorders (still being sold), such as the AG-DVX200, AG-UX180, AG-AC160 and others were analog based control. I just state this to point out that the CX350 isn’t compatible with previous controllers used on our older handheld camcorders.

Varizoom, Libec and Manfrotto offer LANC controllers that are compatible with the CX350. For example, when you go to the Varizoom site, the LANC controller page has the VZROCK and VZSTEALTH and others, which support LANC and are CX350 compatible. Each of these three manufacturers have tested select LANC controllers with the CX350. They are listed in the product brochure. And our factory has checked the models, too. https://pro-av.panasonic.net/en/sales_o/broch_pdf/ag-cx350.pdf

Varizoom LANC controllers: https://www.varizoom.com/product-category/lens-controls/lanc-for-sony-canon-panasonic/

Libec ZFC-L: http://www.libecsales.com/products/remote_controls/ZFC-L.html

Manfrotto MVR901: https://www.manfrotto.com/us-en/clamp-on-remote-for-panasonic-and-lanc-mvr901ecpl/


Steve Cooperman
Senior Product Manager
Broadcast, Cinema, Pro Video Systems
Panasonic
Click to expand...

Hello Steve,

Thank you for visiting the forum and offering input on the CX350. The rear zoom is an import part of what I do, so the performance of these controllers is on my mind with this camera. I own Manfrotto controllers like the unit you list with the Panasonic/LANC switch and am still not getting smooth performance. If I plug the controller into my PX270 the action is very controllable with smooth start, stop and travel between speeds. If I plug that same controller inot the CX350 and switch to LANC the starts and stops are smooth but there are jumps when moving between the different speeds.

I also own a Libec controller of the same ilk with a switch and see the exact same behavior between the two cameras.

I want to commit to this camera but I just can't until it is a lateral move from my PX270s. Will you work with us to get this resolved?
 
Bassman2003 said:
Hello Steve,

Thank you for visiting the forum and offering input on the CX350. The rear zoom is an import part of what I do, so the performance of these controllers is on my mind with this camera. I own Manfrotto controllers like the unit you list with the Panasonic/LANC switch and am still not getting smooth performance. If I plug the controller into my PX270 the action is very controllable with smooth start, stop and travel between speeds. If I plug that same controller inot the CX350 and switch to LANC the starts and stops are smooth but there are jumps when moving between the different speeds.

I also own a Libec controller of the same ilk with a switch and see the exact same behavior between the two cameras.

I want to commit to this camera but I just can't until it is a lateral move from my PX270s. Will you work with us to get this resolved?
Click to expand...

Ugh! I was just about to buy one. That is exactly what I am worried about. As a replacement for my HPX350 I need a smooth zoom when following a speaker on stage. I do Ted Talk style shoots for one client, Big Pharma, and they would hate a jerky framing zoom.

So if Manfrotto and Libec don't work, what's the other company making a controller? Or could it be a physical issue with Batsman's lens? I have the latest firmware.
 
Ned,

We are just going to have to work through this with Panasonic and hope they want to take it to the finish line. I was just on the phone with Panasonic and expressed my concerns about the LANC as well as highlight handling. Hopefully we will get some movement.

I just got my CX350 back from service where the lens was replaced due to internal dust/blob. Was hoping that would change the rear zoom behavior but it did not...
 
As Mr Cooperman pointed out, the LANC protocol is digital and thus will have distinct steps in speed like the gears in a transmission. And the zoom speed transitions will be defined by the size of those steps. If the steps were small enough, it would appear smooth. The now abandoned Panny control protocol from previous handycams was analogue, so operated without steps, which = smooth transition. So unless someone can figure out how to make some dampening between the steps, it is what it is. It seems to me that this is something that could be addressed with firmware or sensitivity control within the cam to somehow ease those transitions between steps.

There was no doubt that the older analogue controllers for the Pannycams were disappearing from the market, so changing over to the more ubiquitous LANC system might have seemed like a good move, until it didn't. So do the Sony and Canon handycams exhibit the same behavior. I don't know. But in the case of Panny users, it seems like something was taken away from the new 350. I am sure Panny is having to deal with this in some way as the disappointment with this important camera function is pretty apparent. And it also seems pretty tone deaf by Panny to not imagine at the design stage that this is important to a lot of the typical handycam users; corporate and event videographers which is the bread and butter of handycams.

The smoothness of the zoom was a big selling point of the 270; it was considered at the time, to be a big professional improvement over earlier handycams. And in fact, compared to previous handycams, my 170 for example, it WAS a huge improvement. Of course, the 270 was and is, a more expensive cam than the 350. And to the 350 user base, does it seem fair to expect a 2 grand cheaper cam, with an arguably better image than the 270, to have all the same features? Maybe that feature equality will happen when there is a more direct replacement for the 270.

Grant
 
Let me see if I understand this. When using the main rocker control on the handle I have good smoothness, but you guys are saying when using the Lanc controllers it has steps? If so, I think I can make do with the rocker.

I am now flummoxed by the audio settings, bummer there isn't an Auto/Manual switch I can access on the body, I constantly use that and hate having to drill into the menu. I think I'll buy one of my soundmen lunch to help me set up the audio menus, I work 90% nowadays solo so I need some wiggle room in my audio setting. I just don't want anything crushed. I did hear some crunching without it hitting the red zone but I was using iPhone ear buds, maybe that's why? I'm still testing.

But...what I really need to become comfortable with is: Can I take this out on quality corporate talking head interviews or do I need to shlep the C100 to do those? Does anyone have any nice examples to allay my fears? Thus far I have been shooting two white dogs in the house, they do blow highlights but that is more extreme than a Caucasian face. My wife won't sit for interview tests anymore.

Ned
 
Let me see if I understand this. When using the main rocker control on the handle I have good smoothness, but you guys are saying when using the Lanc controllers it has steps? If so, I think I can make do with the rocker.
Click to expand...
Yes, that's what's being said. The rocker has tremendous variability. But the LANC protocol doesn't have variability, it has 8 fixed speeds, so when using the LANC the zoom has to operate at those fixed speeds.
 
What is yet to be known is if the controller or cam firmware could offer some dampening. Find a way to pulse the servo when starting and stopping. Not sure if that would work for the servo, but the pulses could be easily done with a basic microprocessor, maybe on the control side. Not to blow too much smoke here, just thinking out loud. Ya, it's smoke.

Just curious, do the other manufacturers cams that use LANC protocol have similar issues?
 
I am just guessing but I do not think the competing cameras from Sony and Canon would show this behavior as they have been on the same protocol for many years.

Ned, If you are looking to re-create the C100 DOF in an interview with the CX350, it will not be the same. F4 on a 1" sensor will will have a lot more DOF than a s35 sensor. It will look fine but not "movie like".
 
ggrantly said:
Just curious, do the other manufacturers cams that use LANC protocol have similar issues?
Click to expand...
Well, that's the exact question and the test that needs to be run. If Ned or Bassman can take their LANC controller over to a dealer who has a modern Sony on display, and try the controller on each camera side by side, that would definitively answer the question as to whether it's Panasonic's implementation of LANC, or the limitations of LANC itself...
 
I used to own a Canon XF300 and it did not show this behavior with a Libec LANC zoom controller. So I do not think this can be blamed on "LANC".
 
Barry_Green said:
Well, that's the exact question and the test that needs to be run. If Ned or Bassman can take their LANC controller over to a dealer who has a modern Sony on display, and try the controller on each camera side by side, that would definitively answer the question as to whether it's Panasonic's implementation of LANC, or the limitations of LANC itself...
Click to expand...

That would bring a lot of clarity.
 
Barry_Green said:
Yes, that's what's being said. The rocker has tremendous variability. But the LANC protocol doesn't have variability, it has 8 fixed speeds, so when using the LANC the zoom has to operate at those fixed speeds.
Click to expand...

Thanks for clarifying Barry. I won't buy a controller then.

Ned
 
Thanks Bassman. I'll try to compensate by getting as far back from the subject and have the subject as far away from their background as possible.

Ned
 
When the CX350 is on my shoulder rig I could sure use it attached to my left handle, at least for reframing. Disregard my response a few down, I'll buy one from B&H so as I can return it easily if unsatisfied, but I will need one attached to my left handle. Smoothness won't be the criterion as much as being able to quickly reframe without releasing the left hand. At least I won't have to swap still lenses anymore, which is why I bought this model. However, there are times when I need to follow speakers on stage and smoothness would really help. The way around it is to have other cameras the editor can cut to if my zoom looks non-pro, but that's a PITA.

Thanks Barry for monitoring this forum until we all become great with the 350. I bought a new toner cartridge because of that manual! Will test it throughly soon, got some Third Wold disease from Mexico just in time to ruin the holidays.

See ya,

Ned
 
My experience with the LANC controllers from Varizoom is that they often take complete control of zooming so that neither the cx350's power zoom nor zoom ring will work. Sometimes zooming gets disabled even after pulling the Varizoom from the jack requiring the cam to be powered off. I have also had the cam lock up completely so that the power has to be pulled.

(I'm not sure if this is a problem with the camera itself needing repair, as I'm also noticing a possible HDMI issue now.)

UPDATE Dec 28: Engineers have asked me to send them the camera for testing, along with one of my Varizooms.
 
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