30 Minute Long Take Oner

K

Killick

Active member
Hi everyone,

Looking for a bit of advice.

I have a shoot coming up that will be entirely one take for 30 minutes. We have a break option with a lighting blackout to stitch 2 takes together if needed, but the reality is I will still need to be operating the camera for 30 minutes straight.

I'm looking for some rig suggestions. I have considered using an Alexa Mini on a Movi or Ronin with an easyrig, but the times I've used a similar set up my back was screaming after about 10-15 minutes. Is it possible I didn't have it configured correctly, or is that about the max length an average person can hold that set up?

Another option is just an shoulder mount camera setup with an easyrig. The obvious drawback is it won't be that steady, but perhaps it may be more manageable for a longer period of time?

I've also looked at the Flowcine Gravity One with an Easyrig, which may be a nice in between option. Has anyone used this set up?

Many thanks for any advice!
 
Killick said:
Hi everyone,

Looking for a bit of advice.

I have a shoot coming up that will be entirely one take for 30 minutes. We have a break option with a lighting blackout to stitch 2 takes together if needed, but the reality is I will still need to be operating the camera for 30 minutes straight.

I'm looking for some rig suggestions. I have considered using an Alexa Mini on a Movi or Ronin with an easyrig, but the times I've used a similar set up my back was screaming after about 10-15 minutes. Is it possible I didn't have it configured correctly, or is that about the max length an average person can hold that set up?

Another option is just an shoulder mount camera setup with an easyrig. The obvious drawback is it won't be that steady, but perhaps it may be more manageable for a longer period of time?

I've also looked at the Flowcine Gravity One with an Easyrig, which may be a nice in between option. Has anyone used this set up?

Many thanks for any advice!
Click to expand...

Why do you need to hand hold this shot ?
 
The camera needs follow a presenter through 3 different rooms in a house, back and forth, and follow unscripted action.
 
Holding up a Movi style gimbal for 30 minutes (even with the help of an easyrig, simply isn't going to work. Not even an elite athlete's arms could last that long.

If that's the style you want to use, you're going to have hand-overs between operators mid take. And to run for that long, I think you'd need quite a few operators switching every couple of minutes.
 
Unfortunately no go for a steadicam operator. They don't have the budget and want it to feel handheld, so I'm trying to find a solution that is a compromise somewhere in the middle.
 
Sounds like a poorly planned disaster in the making if the idea is presenting this unedited. It would take quite a raconteur to perform such a feat aside from the demanding camera work.
How many takes are you prepared to do?
 
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OK, since a Movi or Ronin on an easyrig for 30 minutes seems to be entirely out of the question, has anyone shot that long simply with a shoulder mount set up and an easyrig?

Or has anyone used the Flowcine Gravity One with an easyrig?

Thanks again for any helpful advice.
 
A lightweight camera like an Alexa Mini, attached to an Easyrig should be possible for a 30 minute take if you or your operator are in decent physical shape. You'll need to find a super-comfortable position for the handles on the camera though (otherwise I can almost guarantee your arms will start cramping up mid-take).

You'll also want to look into some magnesium supplements and other treatments that can assist in delaying or minimising muscle cramps.
 
Killick said:
Unfortunately no go for a steadicam operator. They don't have the budget and want it to feel handheld, so I'm trying to find a solution that is a compromise somewhere in the middle.
Click to expand...

If the edict is for it to feel handheld, that should have disqualified a Movi or Ronin right there.

I think you are on the right track with the Easyrig and Gravity One with a light setup like a stripped Mini (but you'll also need wireless focus and video transmitter).

I would recommend building in more possible cut points than the one in the middle. You should have one every five minutes or so to really cover yourselves. Look for walls or doorjambs you can possibly do a wipe in post to cover stitching two takes, or whip pans. The unscripted aspect of this is a red flag also--that's allowing a large variable into the mix that could really derail your day.

I would also suggest two operators that can do alternate takes. Allows for recovery time and while watching the other person run through it you gain valuable information on how to improve it the next time around.
 
Thanks Grug and Charles for those notes, they are quite helpful.

I'm not sure how serious you were about the magnesium supplements, but that is certainly something I've considered. We are still 3 months from production and I've also started upping my time at the gym. It's not going to be easy, but that is part of the reason I took the job. It's a production like nothing I've done before and there are a number of logistical challenges that I'm getting creative in finding solutions to.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, it's a scripted performance that has improv elements, but it's for broadcast and has a hard 29 minute run time. The script is actually very precise and timed to another video element that will be playing in the background of each room, but I want to allow the performer to interact with the environment as unencumbered as possible.

I'm going to poke around further to see if the easyrig/Gravity One combo will work.

Also, the second operator is a great idea, I will propose that. Very true that watching someone walk through it can be enlightening.
 
I dont know how much it weighs but what about a black magic micro - very tidy camera if the scene is lit to the correct dynamic range?

If I were building it in shoulder form I would place it on the front of long rods (60cm) and have any other masses at the rear (battery, video transmitter) to give it inertia while still keeping the mass low.

Intertia makes stable shots.. mass does not.

I dont know about battery life but Im a fan of BPU batts on a plate with Dtap out.

The BM has composite out and big HDMI this is super..

Operator composes on his composite monitor.. surprisingly good with my DP6, while the HDMI out is used via transmitter to feed the puller and village.
 
Why don't you forego funds for a pricier camera hire, stabilizer, easy rig etc. and opt for a Steadicam op with a cheaper camera package?

I'm not speaking as an authority, just genuinely curious.
 
Easy Rig has a pendulum effect when walking if done bare (with no Flowcine). I don't imagine it's a good choice for a 30 minute tracking shot.

I think Easy Rig is a great tool for getting shots at different heights, having a general floating feel to the shot (in-between Steadicam and handheld), and for relieving the operator's fatigue, but I don't see it as a good choice for walking shots in most cases. I've gone probably an hour or more with an Easy Rig with a 24 lb camera setup and was barely fatigued by it; I'd imagine 30 minutes with the Alexa Mini and Movi or Ronin shouldn't be too rough. Then again, perhaps those particular muscles in my back are more used to the load since I do a lot of Steadicam work, and perhaps with a gimbal you'd have the setup further from your body which would cause more fatigue.

The Flowcine Serene Gravity One setup (without a gimbal) has a sort of pseudo Steadicam/gimbal feel to the footage that I've seen. It's interesting. To me it looks a bit bobbly, less organic than Steadicam (but more organic than a gimbal), and less precise, so I'd probably prefer Steadicam in most cases. Then you add a gimbal to that equation, and you've just got an unwieldy mess which may seem cool, but is actually not that cheap, harder to control with pinpoint accuracy in framing, and less organic than Steadicam.

My take. If you want a handheld look, shoulder mount the camera, or if it's a smaller camera like a C300 you can hold it out in front of you (like they did in Victoria, mentioned below). I'd imagine holding an Alexa Mini on one's shoulder for 30 minutes would be manageable. If you want a smooth look, as Rob said, forgo the pricier camera, etc., and hire a Steadicam operator. A Varicam LT (which Charles is a fan of) is around 1/3 the rental rate of an Alexa Mini and would likely get the job done well.



Here is a one-take Steadicam film I did which was a five minute shot with a C300 Mark II.




Right now I'm planning another one-take film, which our plan is to use a Sony A7s II in an underwater housing attached to a Glidecam HD4000, as the first half of the film is above water and the second half is underwater (so Glidecam and I would be going for a swim).


And then there's Victoria, the 2 hr 18 minute one take short film which was filmed handheld with a Canon C300. I've been meaning to watch that but haven't gotten around to it yet.



You can see the camera setup and crew they had running with them in this video below.

 
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Hey all, thanks for your advice here. It's a bit late but wanted to share what I ended up going with.

We used an Easyrig Vario 5 with a Serene arm and a Gravity One. I think this setup is normally used with the camera out front and a hand lightly controlling the movement from the top of the Gravity One, but I found there was too much unwanted movement in the rig while stopping and starting movement with my body. I needed a bit more control over camera movement, this positioning also put the camera lower than eye level which was not desirable.

To give myself greater control and keep the sensor at eye level, I ended up using handgrips positioned directly under the fore/aft axis. This a bit more camera shake than would have been otherwise, but as the director wanted it to feel slightly handheld it worked out well. It ended up landing nicely in between on the shoulder and on a gimbal, and allowed me to pull off 30 min takes with very little fatigue.

We did 4 takes per night (over 5 nights), and ended up using the very last one. It is a true one take, no cuts... pretty proud of this one. Here is a link to a photo of myself with the rig, and the finished product.

(BTW my focus puller was absolutely incredible, and if anyone is looking for someone in the UK send me a message, I can't recommend him enough.)

https://www.instagram.com/p/BZNANd5FClM/?taken-by=rscafuro

 
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