3 things for an AF successor

Must haves:

1. 10 bit 4:2:2 internal and out via SDI
2. Better highlight handling (slower roll off to white instead of yellow, please)
3. AVCHD 2.0

Accessories I would love to see

1. External SSD recorder with RAW format like CinemaDNG or DPX sequences (under 1k, please)
2. Fast, inexpensive, parfocal, manual lenses (Panasonic branded Voigtlander Nokton lenses, maybe?)
3. Wireless remote app for Android, iOS and Windows Mobile (start/stop, access to all menus). It would be great if such an app could work over USB or IR

Shawn
 
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The modularity and flexibility of this (http://apertus.org/en) coming in well below $10k later this year.

If Panasonic doesn't quickly get with the program they will quickly be trounced by this new generation of thinking. Don't believe me? Well, open source Linux runs the internet and is more robust than Windows or Mac operating systems.

Times are a changing and that is a very good thing for all of us!

Panasonic should realize they need to quickly relinquish the keys to the castle - i.e. allow 3rd party developers access to a SDK. The idea that we have to depend on hackers to hack GH2 software to create what has been proven a better picture is absurd. The idea that Panasonic turns of audio in overcrank as non-negotiable in the guise of protecting us from ourselves is equally absurd. This intractability issue alone will make me and many others jump onto the open source bandwagon and never look back.
 
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Barry_Green said:
I'd rather hear that from Jan than from some friend who says Jan said it, because who knows what may get lost in translation etc. I have never heard Jan rule out definitively any feature from any unannounced product, and would find it hard to believe that she would have done so.

Now, if she said "the AF100 itself will never have 4:2:2 internal", then that's perfectly reasonable and understandable -- there will not be a firmware upgrade or change to the existing model to make that possible. But to rule it out on a product that hasn't even really begun development yet? That's just not practical and I sincerely doubt she would have said that. I would chalk it up to a miscommunication.
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my friend forwarded me the email in question, Barry, sent from her Panasonic email account. Would you like me to send it to you or post it here?
 
Reposting another person's private email, publicly, isn't really good netiquette. I'll just ask Jan to come over here and clarify her position so that we can all hear it directly.
 
Barry_Green said:
Reposting another person's private email, publicly, isn't really good netiquette. I'll just ask Jan to come over here and clarify her position so that we can all hear it directly.
Click to expand...

Or I could invite my friend to the forum so he can reference dates and email subject. . .but yes, hearing Jan clarify would probably be good, because I'm hoping my friend and I are mistaken. . . Or I could paraphrase: He was looking to make a current purchase of a Samurai for its purported 4:2:2, shooting with an AF100, and wondered if the Samurai recorder would be obsolete but redundant for the AF100's successor. With the answer being affirmative he was simply going to rent the Samurai - that is if the successor would be 4:2:2 10 bit internally. With the response being negative, he was going to buy the Samurai knowing that he'd still need it with the AF100's successor.
 
Perhaps, but -- there won't be any successor for probably a year or more. So if someone is looking for a 4:2:2 AF100 this year, then no, there's probably zero chance of that. But is there a possibility for an AF100A with some minor upgrades, and 4:2:0? Sure. Is there a possibility for an AF200 with AVC-LongG and 4:2:2 10-bit a year or two from now? Sure, why not? Is there a possibility for an AHX250, a blending of the AF100's large sensor with the back end of an HPX250 (including 10-bit 4:2:2 AVC-Intra)? Sure. Would that be an "AF" successor? I don't know.

People's perception of time is really kind of distorted recently. It's not time for an AF100 successor to come out. People were expecting an AF100 successor last April, which was just wildly unrealistic, and guess what, there was no successor. Heck, people were looking for an AF100 successor the NAB before last(!)

Sometimes folks think the camera industry moves way faster than it actually does. In mid-2010, people were asking when Canon would have a competitor to the AF100, and I went on record predicting "Canon will not have a competitor to the AF100 this year. Or in 2011. Or in 2012." Here we are over halfway through 2012 and I think my prediction is holding pretty strong (unless someone wants to say a $30,000 C500 is a competitor to the $3500 AF100, or that the $16,000 C300 is a competitor to the $3500 AF100, but obviously I don't consider those competitors, because a competitor should be reasonably comparably priced and offer reasonably comparable features, so that a typical buyer with a given budget would reasonably choose between them.)

Anyway -- this thread is about an AF100 "successor". I wouldn't consider an AF100 A, for example, to be an AF100 "successor", I'd consider that a revision of the AF100. To me a "successor" is a new model that totally supersedes the original, not just a revision of the original. So a big 10-bit 4:2:2 P2-based theoretical "AHX250" would be a successor, but only if the AF100 was discontinued at the same time... otherwise, it'd just be another model in the family, I guess.
 
Barry_Green said:
Is there a possibility for an AF200 with AVC-LongG and 4:2:2 10-bit a year or two from now? Sure, why not? Is there a possibility for an AHX250, a blending of the AF100's large sensor with the back end of an HPX250 (including 10-bit 4:2:2 AVC-Intra)? Sure. Would that be an "AF" successor? I don't know.
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Barry, what you say, "sure" and "why not?" to was precisely what was said no to. Without needlessly stretching this or endlessly diluting the point, the answer to "will the successor have 4:2:2 10-bit internally?" was a flat emphatic NO, not once but twice in two emails.

And as for the cogent points you address, I'd like to think that neither my friend nor I nor anyone here for that matter are dullards, dunces or imbeciles who'd confuse upgrades with a successor. It's simple. We had the DVX100, then we had the HVX200, the A, and the HPX170. If it's safe to say the AF100 is the DVX100 of this lineage, the question was about the successor - the 200 or whatever it's called, NOT an upgrade or revision of the AF100. The answer was NO. Twice. However, since you've invited her, I think we'd love a confutation from Jan.
 
I don't think I was calling or implying that anyone was a dunce, dullard, or imbecile.

Having been working this internet thing on this forum for nigh unto a decade, I've seen more than one case of either misunderstood communication, or hedged words based on someone not wanting to reveal something that they can't publicly comment on, etc. So I've asked. And Jan will comment or won't.

And here's the last thing I'll say on it -- Jan doesn't dictate what the factory will build, or won't build. The FACTORY is the one that determines what they will build or won't build. If the factory decided to make an AF100 successor that recorded 4:4:4, there's nothing Jan could do to stop them if she wanted to. Jan is the product manager for the AVCCAM and P2 Handheld line for one of the most important divisions that the factory sells to, the USA. We (the USA) are either the #1 or #2 biggest customer the factory has. What we want, and what we will buy, is quite important to the factory, and that's why Jan's presence here has been so influential in communicating what we want directly to the factory. But when it all comes down to it, the factory themselves will determine what they will build, whether it's what the customers or the product representatives are asking them for, or not. Under Jan's leadership the factory has done a better job of listening than ever before, perhaps ever in the history of a major Japanese manufacturer in its relationship with a USA-based customer base. So there's no question that she is quite influential with them and I know of certain scenarios where she has successfully lobbied them to change some product features to make a product more acceptable to our market.

Of course, there's also been many times when I've just been plain wrong.

Hopefully Jan will choose to comment and clarify this. The odd thing is, making a declaration of what a forthcoming product WON'T have is so unusual, I have to assume (and yes, it's an assumption) that there is some manner of miscommunication SOMEWHERE. Have you ever heard of any new product from any manufacturer where the manufacturer starts out by saying "whatever it is that we make in the future, it won't do what you want?" I've never heard of that. Could be possible, I guess, but the norm is for the manufacturers to not say anything to anyone about any future product, until it's formally unveiled.
 
Of course most improvements I had in mind were already mentioned. But also had some more

1. Dual Micro P2 or SDXC slots (so either could be used)
2. ISO improvement of about 2 stops? Increase to 6400 or 12800
3. Better grip with a zoom rocker added. (and please, some pro MFT power zoom lenses)

Overall I think the AF100 is great, especially the price point
 
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My biggest concern is that Panasonic is being left behind. By that i mean, if you say it will be over a year before there is an upgrade of the AF100 - and the new Sony FS700 is shipping now - with incredible slow motion, at a affordable price, with beautiful image quality....... welll going to have to think about jumping ship to Sony. (damn cause I love p2). The camera market is moving incredibly fast now......Panasonic can not fall a year behind!!..... i have a business to run, and need great tools to keep up. Listen to what the audience is asking for and be quick if you want to keep loyal customers
 
Well, depends on what you mean by "falling behind". Remember the AF100 was out 18 months before the FS700! Plus, it costs well under half. They're not really in competition with each other.
 
Barry_Green said:
Well, depends on what you mean by "falling behind". Remember the AF100 was out 18 months before the FS700! Plus, it costs well under half. They're not really in competition with each other.
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But it IS in competition with the FS100 in that sense, which is presently wiping out the AF100, at least here in the UK.
This is only going to get worse as all the second hand FS100's come onto the market from people buying FS700's.

TBH Panasonic have kind of been in trouble for a while, which I find a shame as traditionally I love their cameras but...

I do think the one thing Panasonic is doing that is VERY smart, is asking the users what they might like to see. I know that a lot of people that used the AF100 commented that the feature they really liked was all the aspect ratio markings you could select. Something suggested here and that actually costs almost nothing to implement!

The thing I'm hearing people hate, is the possibility of accidently knocking the camera into overcrank mode and not realising. The sound bars continue to move, sound is still delivered to the headphones for monitoring, but no sound is being recorded! A few people have come REALLY unstuck with that. Imagine a days shooting with NO SOUND! That needs to be sorted as a priority. The control need to be moved or better protected and it needs to be way clearer that the camera is not recording sound. Perhaps by turning off the metering on the camera or turning off the monitoring or both!

Those are two things to keep in mind, but I think Panasonic needs to come up with something to shake things up like the DVX100 did. However I don't see they are in a position to do that in the current market. It will be interesting to see the way things go.

love

Freya
 
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Actually the thing I would really, really like to see, is a camera that can produce beautiful cinegamma images in high definition, that are closer to the DVX100 series cameras. It seems to me this quality has gone away more and more over time. The HVX200 seemed to have less of this nice look to the cinegamma and from there on it has been steadily in decline. Especially since the move to CMOS. I've not been able to find anything shot on the HPX250, that doesn't look like beautiful documentary style video footage for instance. That could of course just be what people are shooting, it is after all very much the market Panasonic seem to be going after. The place currently held by the canon XF305. I'd love to see ANY camera from panasonic that could record more DVX like images. They really got the magic right on that camera. If it can do the low contrasty kind of look that is so popular right now, that would also be great (but personally I'm really NOT into that look!)

love

Freya
 
dtzfilms said:
Or I could paraphrase: He was looking to make a current purchase of a Samurai for its purported 4:2:2, shooting with an AF100, and wondered if the Samurai recorder would be obsolete but redundant for the AF100's successor. With the answer being affirmative he was simply going to rent the Samurai - that is if the successor would be 4:2:2 10 bit internally. With the response being negative, he was going to buy the Samurai knowing that he'd still need it with the AF100's successor.
Click to expand...

Okay, so I remember your friend's email. And I did say that if there were to be an AF100 upgrade that it would not be 4:2:2 recording in camera. It would still be 4:2:0. Now that is not the intention of this thread. An AF100 replacement would be an AF100A or some such thing. This thread is about something else.

Thanks,

jan
 
1) Higher resolution ie more than 1000 lines
2) Better dynamic range
3)10 bit out

4)2.5k or even higher options for some wiggle room
5)loose the evf and make it more of a block to mount stuff off (I know im being greedy with 5 )
 
Now that I think of it I cant recommend ditching the EVF enough.
If people want an EVF they will buy a Zukuto or some such. Save the space, the cost and make the top flat for a mounting plate.
 
These upgrades all are about improving the ergonomics of using the camera, technical improvements I'm not as concerned with.

1) 1:1 focus assist - or at least something so I can SEE the focus (the pop up window on the HVX200/HPX170 work well). An improved LCD would help

2) As a separate accessory - a branded, cabled, mounted integrated VF that rotates (kind of like all VF's that come on 2/3 " broadcast type cameras) and monochrome would be GREAT for this. Save the color for a real monitor. Yes - I know it would be expensive - I'm fine with that so I can go from shoulder to hip to tripod without delay.

3) A real honest to goodness parfocal zoom lens with a good wide to moderate telephoto range AND with a real servo motor. I think something between the 12-35/2.8 just coming out and the Fuji "Cabrio". Surely a middle ground between $1,300 and $45,000 can be reached....

I also really like the idea of higher quality in-camera recording.

Thanks Jan for posting the question - it says a lot that you're getting direct feedback from us users and i really appreciate it!
 
well i don't own this camera, (but it is one i had my eye on), *hope to raise money to get it soon... (or it's successor)*

1) I'd like to see a cheaper price
2) DNxHD or ProRes Support (in both HD\SD flavors)
(2.1 - Record to SSD Or External Drive maybe (full power USB2 would be nice, or FW800) <-probably pushing it with that one? :P
anyway)

^or at least that 422|10bit SDI Out for using an external recorder to do so...


Anyway, i think it's awesome that companies are really listening to their users, you rarely see that nowadays.
 
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