SHORT: 3 Minutes short film about preserving childhood

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damienkazan

Member
Hello everybody,


As I barely post here, let me re-introduce myself, I am a 23 years old French aspiring filmmaker, and I wanted to share with you this little little short that might be my most personal film so far. It is about preserving childhood, I have done it with an American actor and an American film composer, the kid in the film is actually my little brother.
Here it is on Youtube :



If some of you have any question about it, camera, or anything, just feel free to ask me whatever you want.

I hope you'll enjoy it!


Thanks and have all a very nice day!
 
Why did you have raindrops on your lens 0:40 - 0:52... ce ne est pas tout simplement mauvais, ce est le mal. I know it's raining, but I don't want to see that sh|t on the lens - kicks me right out of the movie... don't remind the audience there is a camera involved.
 
OldCorpse said:
Why did you have raindrops on your lens 0:40 - 0:52... ce ne est pas tout simplement mauvais, ce est le mal. I know it's raining, but I don't want to see that sh|t on the lens - kicks me right out of the movie... don't remind the audience there is a camera involved.
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C'est le mal haha, did the blood splatter in Children of Men kicked you right out of the movie too ? I mean I know if I could have avoid it, I would have, but all the takes had raindrops, those drops were failling from the trees and it was just impossible to make that shot this day without having one drop on the lens. In the end I felt like it added something to the shot and if all the takes had raindrops then maybe It meant I should leave the shot as it is.

But I totally get the "don't remind the audience there is a camera involved", it's touchy, yet not all viewers feel concerned by it.

Thanks for watching OldCorps!
 
The Children of Men - and similar instances - are a very self-conscious and deliberate effect and can have its place for intentional reaction. This is not the same situation. Now, yes, I do understand the difficulty you experienced... which is why I said "I know it's raining" - to signal that I do recognize the difficulty. But it's still a flaw, and to say "but the situation was very difficult" is not an excuse... if f.ex. you record bad sound, because you were shooting near an airport, your sound will suck, and saying "but what could I do, it was near an airport!" doesn't help... after all, what matters is audience reaction - and I am one example of an audience - they will be bothered or kicked out of the movie by bad sound, or being reminded of the camera, or any other mistake, and it won't help if the director stands up in the theater and explains "listen everybody, I know it's a flaw, but do you know how hard the situation was??". The audience doesn't care why there is a flaw - they just react. So it is your job to take care of the problems no matter how difficult - one way or another... yes, it can be very difficult, but then again, making films can be very difficult, it's something we have to accept without excuses. If you want success, you must work hard for it, not accept flaws, but do be open to criticism and try to do better next time - the better you do, the better the ultimate effect. I'm saying this to you, because you are a young aspiring filmmaker by your own account, and I wanted to give you a bit of advice that can be helpful. Many people wish they got advice early on, and my best advice to you right now is simply this: Don't Accept Poor Work - push yourself, challenge yourself, demand of yourself, because that is what will make you better. 10,000 filmmakers start out, for every one that ultimately makes it across the finish line and has a career. Will you be one to go the distance? If yes, then you will take it to your heart: Don't Accept Poor Work. My critique was really about that - having high standards for yourself - the drops of rain on the lens in the end is not as much of a big deal, but it's attitude, it says all about the attitude - if you start accepting small flaws, you will get used to accepting flaws, and that will not have a happy ending. So from one point of view, those raindrops are no big deal - as you apparently thought, but I say to you: il est non seulement le mal, mais un crime. Think about it, while you are still young and still have some time. I wish you the best in all your future endeavors!
 
OldCorpse said:
The Children of Men - and similar instances - are a very self-conscious and deliberate effect and can have its place for intentional reaction. This is not the same situation. Now, yes, I do understand the difficulty you experienced... which is why I said "I know it's raining" - to signal that I do recognize the difficulty. But it's still a flaw, and to say "but the situation was very difficult" is not an excuse... if f.ex. you record bad sound, because you were shooting near an airport, your sound will suck, and saying "but what could I do, it was near an airport!" doesn't help... after all, what matters is audience reaction - and I am one example of an audience - they will be bothered or kicked out of the movie by bad sound, or being reminded of the camera, or any other mistake, and it won't help if the director stands up in the theater and explains "listen everybody, I know it's a flaw, but do you know how hard the situation was??". The audience doesn't care why there is a flaw - they just react. So it is your job to take care of the problems no matter how difficult - one way or another... yes, it can be very difficult, but then again, making films can be very difficult, it's something we have to accept without excuses. If you want success, you must work hard for it, not accept flaws, but do be open to criticism and try to do better next time - the better you do, the better the ultimate effect. I'm saying this to you, because you are a young aspiring filmmaker by your own account, and I wanted to give you a bit of advice that can be helpful. Many people wish they got advice early on, and my best advice to you right now is simply this: Don't Accept Poor Work - push yourself, challenge yourself, demand of yourself, because that is what will make you better. 10,000 filmmakers start out, for every one that ultimately makes it across the finish line and has a career. Will you be one to go the distance? If yes, then you will take it to your heart: Don't Accept Poor Work. My critique was really about that - having high standards for yourself - the drops of rain on the lens in the end is not as much of a big deal, but it's attitude, it says all about the attitude - if you start accepting small flaws, you will get used to accepting flaws, and that will not have a happy ending. So from one point of view, those raindrops are no big deal - as you apparently thought, but I say to you: il est non seulement le mal, mais un crime. Think about it, while you are still young and still have some time. I wish you the best in all your future endeavors!
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First, I appreciate the fact that you take the time to reply and advice me, even though I have no idea of who you are, I really appreciate that, and your advice is obviously, very good.

I just want to make something clear, and please I hope you won't think I'm acting like a smart ass or a young arrogant punk, that's not what I am, I want to make something clear because I am actually the guy you advice I should become, If in the end I left the raindrop it is because I thought it added something artsy and poetic to it, as I said in my last comment, yes when I shot it, I didn't want it, I felt like "oh ****.." but then, editing it, it felt different, it added something to it, and actually, this is exactly what happened to Alfonso Cuaron with the blood splatter, it wasn't planned, and after shooting it he felt like "oh ****, everything was great but look guys, there's this blood splatter on the shot" and they couldn't do more takes because the shot was very long and it was taking a lot of time to re-shoot it. I would not leave in one of my shorts something that I would consider a flaw, or at least, a disturbing flaw, I've done my share of bad, full of flaws, poor short films (not that the current ones are amazing) and I'm now truly persistent and try to be as perfectionist as possible. I re-shot some stuff, I edited it over and over again for 2 months, I asked the actor of the voice over to re-record it over and over until we had the tone I was looking for.

I believe that, in filmmaking, we all have to be super perfectionist, but sometimes, a lot of times, things happen during shoots that we didn't expect, and most of the times we try to fight it, but sometimes, in fact, it's just the way it has to be and in the end it actually makes the film better.

Yet I'm taking your advice in consideration of course, what you said is something no filmmaker should forget, we are way too many trying and if we start accepting flaws then it's the begining of the end.

Please be sure that I'm not angry or rejecting criticism, I'm not that kind of guy either, I'm just argumenting on my attitude, trying to prove you, or anyone disturbed by the drop, that I'm not the careless kid. On more than a hundred people that have seen this post, you're the only one that commented, I would not allow myself to act like a jerk toward you.

Thanks again for watching/commenting good sir, I wish you all the best in your futur endeavors as well, hoping to hear your thoughts on my futur films !
 
Fair enough, Damien Kazan. Yes, what you describe is called a "happy accident". The music producer and thinker Brian Eno has a whole system based on such principles, which he assembled called "Oblique Strategies". One very important principle in those strategies is taking advantage of "happy accidents". Because in the end, what matters is the end result - however you get there. What matters is the end effect on the audience. If you get a good effect by planning, or by an accident, or by mistake (Brian Eno has a strategy card called "Honour thy error as a hidden intention"). In other words, it's the end result that matters. If the end result is good, keep it, however you got it - and if the result is bad, reject it, even if you put a lot of work into it and love it personally (in film we do that by the saying "kill your darlings"). See, Damien, I'm well aware of the complexities of creating art :), I've been studying it all my life. Your intentions, your reactions and your views are important when you create anything, including film art - but there is only one ultimate judge... the audience (unless you're just shooting for yourself). And that is why, sometimes you have to "kill your darlings", reject something that you perhaps loved the most in your work, because ultimately the audience is the judge and that's the highest obligation - and if in order to make your work effective, you have to give up something you love, well, that's what a true artist has to do.

Regarding the rain drop. Perhaps you love it, as you said. I'm the audience - but only one person. I'm telling you, that the effect you love doesn't work here. Maybe it works for Cuaron's particular situation, but not here. That's my report to you. What you do with that report is up to you. Now of course, I'm just one member of the audience. So maybe my reaction is not typical. What's best to get is a range of reactions. If one person tells you something, maybe they are wrong. But if 10 people all tell you the same thing - you better pay attention. Of course, I have my own approach - I pay attention to even one person - pay attention does NOT mean agree with the critic - because maybe that person sees something that others can not or they only sense something but cannot put it in words, so my preference is to pay attention so that as few people as possible object... if I remove the objections of everyone, then chances are my work has improved immensely. But of course, it doesn't mean automatically agree with all critics. Some people are just not very good critics. It is your job to figure out if the critic is right or wrong. Unfortunately, you only have my reaction, so you can't see if many people agree, and so you must decide if OldCorpse is an idiot, or mistaken, or if he has a point. I can only report - you do the rest. Best of luck!
 
For what it's worth, the rain drops on the lens didn't bother me. On the other hand, I found some of the handheld camera work a little too shaky, and a handheld camera is another thing that reminds me that there's a camera there. It can, of course, be used to good effect. In fact, I think it was used to good effect in this film, but I think the film would have been stronger if the movement had been less extreme.

I also found it difficult to understand the voice over at times, although the actor did a fine job.

There were also some really nice shots in there, and the color grading was effective. Your brother did a good job as well.
 
I considered myself a thoughtful, philosophical type in my early twenties, and realized later how trite and ridiculous a lot of those earlier "deep thoughts" were. I think when you're 33, you'll cringe a little at what you did when you were 23, but that's natural.

I thought the raindrops were intentional but a poor choice, before I read the comments. Fwiw, whenever I've seen OldCorpse's comments, they've been on point. One honest/perceptive person is worth a hundred who tell you "amazing, great job!".

My verdict: good color and pacing, uneven cinematography, and thematically not as profound as it wants to be. But I could see you becoming a (very!) good filmmaker. Thanks for sharing your work here.
 
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OldCorpse said:
Fair enough, Damien Kazan. Yes, what you describe is called a "happy accident". The music producer and thinker Brian Eno has a whole system based on such principles, which he assembled called "Oblique Strategies". One very important principle in those strategies is taking advantage of "happy accidents". Because in the end, what matters is the end result - however you get there. What matters is the end effect on the audience. If you get a good effect by planning, or by an accident, or by mistake (Brian Eno has a strategy card called "Honour thy error as a hidden intention"). In other words, it's the end result that matters. If the end result is good, keep it, however you got it - and if the result is bad, reject it, even if you put a lot of work into it and love it personally (in film we do that by the saying "kill your darlings"). See, Damien, I'm well aware of the complexities of creating art :), I've been studying it all my life. Your intentions, your reactions and your views are important when you create anything, including film art - but there is only one ultimate judge... the audience (unless you're just shooting for yourself). And that is why, sometimes you have to "kill your darlings", reject something that you perhaps loved the most in your work, because ultimately the audience is the judge and that's the highest obligation - and if in order to make your work effective, you have to give up something you love, well, that's what a true artist has to do.

Regarding the rain drop. Perhaps you love it, as you said. I'm the audience - but only one person. I'm telling you, that the effect you love doesn't work here. Maybe it works for Cuaron's particular situation, but not here. That's my report to you. What you do with that report is up to you. Now of course, I'm just one member of the audience. So maybe my reaction is not typical. What's best to get is a range of reactions. If one person tells you something, maybe they are wrong. But if 10 people all tell you the same thing - you better pay attention. Of course, I have my own approach - I pay attention to even one person - pay attention does NOT mean agree with the critic - because maybe that person sees something that others can not or they only sense something but cannot put it in words, so my preference is to pay attention so that as few people as possible object... if I remove the objections of everyone, then chances are my work has improved immensely. But of course, it doesn't mean automatically agree with all critics. Some people are just not very good critics. It is your job to figure out if the critic is right or wrong. Unfortunately, you only have my reaction, so you can't see if many people agree, and so you must decide if OldCorpse is an idiot, or mistaken, or if he has a point. I can only report - you do the rest. Best of luck!
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iain.bason said:
For what it's worth, the rain drops on the lens didn't bother me. On the other hand, I found some of the handheld camera work a little too shaky, and a handheld camera is another thing that reminds me that there's a camera there. It can, of course, be used to good effect. In fact, I think it was used to good effect in this film, but I think the film would have been stronger if the movement had been less extreme.

I also found it difficult to understand the voice over at times, although the actor did a fine job.

There were also some really nice shots in there, and the color grading was effective. Your brother did a good job as well.
Click to expand...

charliemcdanger said:
I considered myself a thoughtful, philosophical type in my early twenties, and realized later how trite and ridiculous a lot of those earlier "deep thoughts" were. I think when you're 33, you'll cringe a little at what you did when you were 23, but that's natural.

I thought the raindrops were intentional but a poor choice, before I read the comments. Fwiw, whenever I've seen OldCorpse's comments, they've been on point. One honest/perceptive person is worth a hundred who tell you "amazing, great job!".

My verdict: good color and pacing, uneven cinematography, and thematically not as profound as it wants to be. But I could see you becoming a (very!) good filmmaker. Thanks for sharing your work here.
Click to expand...


Old Corpse I guess yes we can call it a Happy Accident, even though If I could have done without it, I would have, and you're right about the what matters is the effect on the audience but on the other hand we can't satisfy everybody, even though our goal is to have the best effect possible on as many people as possible, but it's also about bringing our vision on screen (not saying that the drop was part of my original vision), that's why a lot of filmmakers fight for, so I guess it's a constant fight between remaining true to our vision and pleasing the audience, of course I guess remaining true to our vision has more limits than pleasing the audience.
By the way thanks for telling me about Oblique Strategies, sounds really interesting, I will check that out!
Thanks for everything Old Corpse!


Thanks for watching it Iain Bason! and thank you so much for the kind words! I try not to make it shaky for nothing, I love handheld a lot though, I shoot most of my stuff handheld. Oh and thank you on behalf of my little brother haha! :)

Charlie Mcdanger! Thanks a lot for your comment too! I'm glad you liked the color and pacing, What do you mean by "uneven cinematography" ? is that something you considered a flaw or just a fact? well actually yes it has some steady shots and some others handheld that's what I was looking for.

As for the "philosophy" of the movie, I can understand why some of the lines can sound "cliché", but yes I can imagine that as we grow old some of our thoughts get more mature, but I actually wrote this film during some sort of existential crisis, I was talking a lot about fatherhood with a shrink and my grandmothers, and this film came from all these discussions, I don't want the film to look deeper than what it is, it's just a message I hope some parents would hear, or at least, something I needed to express, like I guess if I should keep just one line from the film it'd be "Save them from our world to let them enter it as complete individuals" which is the main message of the short, keep children out of adults' things, because as I've been hearing it a lot, anything our parents do have an impact that can be dramatic on children. That's just what I wanted to say with this film.

Thank you so much for believing I could become good at filmmaking Charlie, that means so much to me! and yyoes OldCorpse seems to definitely know his **** , if I can say.
 
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