FS7: 2k crop pushing the limits, need better lenses?

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Publimix

Veteran
I shot some footage with a 400mm lens with center crop modus. It is an older 5.6 400mm nikkor ed lens, and also with nikkor 50-300mm older zoom.

Shown on a 40inch 4K monitor I don't like the image. Used tripod and lens support, camera triggered with remote.
I do not like the sharpness and color shifting.

Both center crop and enlarge 4K image will push the lenses to their limit of course. That makes me think, now I have footage that is not OK. While shot in 4K I could have decided not to enlarge the picture and kept wider, but better image.

Never had the opportunity to use newer telelenses. Anyone experiencing the same? Do I have to move to newer/better lenses? Is new that much better than vintage? Say the 300 mm nikkor vs 400 mm new nikkor (350 euro vs 6000 to 12.000 euro f2.8). Price suggests so.

I hope to be able to test soon, but your opinions are welcome.
 
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couple things,

If you shoot centre crop and scale up to 4K it will affect the image slightly by softening it. That aside when you shoot through the centre of any glass, it's the part of most glass that has the least amount of imperfections so generally even a "cheap" lens if shooting crop with it can produce really good results.

On your lens, have you tried stopping down to around f5.6 - f8? This is generally the best spot for most lenses, so it would be interesting for you to test out. Also have you tried shooting using the full sensor mode (not crop) with these lenses just to see the performance by comparison?

If your Nikon 300mm is a -P version, 1964-1969 then it has inferior optics compared to the later -H version which had dramatically improved the optics in the lens by changing the design to six elements inside the lens.

General comparison on generation of 300mm F4-F4.5 lenses:
http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/comparisons/300mm-f4.htm

To read Ken Rockwell's Nikon Nikkor-P review check out this link. He comments on observations on the lens at specific aperture settings and the lens in general.
http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/30045P.htm

His review on the successor Nikkor-H can be found here:
http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/300ais.htm
 
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Have to apologize. I confused two lenses, the one I used was the 400/5.6 Nikkor*ED IF (1981). (Just sold the 300mm). I shot at f8 or f11.
Can't find the review of this lens at Rockwells site. Other sites praise this lens for its sharpness.

I think the 800 mm (with center crop) pushes the limits of tripod, mount, adapter, lens and myself too much.


 
Test it without crop and try some different f-stops, there's no reason why your Nikon ED shouldn't produce great results.

Can you post any frames?

I shot this with an old Nikon 500mm F8 reflex lens which is not that great quality in my opinion. It is in full sensor mode.

https://vimeo.com/61595452

cheers,
 
Doug Jensen also shoots a lot of crop mode on long zoom lenses, hopefully he will chime up as to what you might be experiencing in your case. But without any frames to see, it can be hard to say anything.
 
Publimix said:
I shot some footage with a 300mm lens with center crop modus. It is an older 4.5 300mm nikkor ed lens, and also with nikkor 50-300mm older zoom.

Shown on a 40inch 4K monitor I don't like the image. Used tripod and lens support, camera triggered with remote.
I do not like the sharpness and color shifting.

Both center crop and enlarge 4K image will push the lenses to their limit of course. That makes me think, now I have footage that is not OK. While shot in 4K I could have decided not to enlarge the picture and kept wider, but better image.
Click to expand...

I have a Nikkor 100-300 F5.6 and I've shot with it in centre crop and the lens creates a wonderful image and probably not vastly different to the 50-300. What do you mean by colour shifting? That can mean anything. Maybe attach a screen shot to better explain what you don't like.

What is it you are trying to achieve?

Most of the Nikkor AIS age lenses produce a stunning image that is detailed, has plenty of character and yet not super clinical like modern glass. New is not necessarily better unless you're into lens specs and older glass generally can't match the numbers of modern glass.
 
Publimix said:


I think the 800 mm (with center crop) pushes the limits of tripod, mount, adapter, lens and myself too much.


Click to expand...

Shooting video at long focal lengths is a specialist task. The quality of your tripod and head will need to many times better (expensive) than the one you can get away with up to 100mm.
 
Screen shot is difficult, I want to show the 4K monitor screen but this has other (davinci) videocard. Other screens have Gforce970 card. And I am not yet able to make a screenshot of that big screen.
I'll try to get some screenshots anyway.
 
I reckon the 2k mode is soft. Maybe better than 150FPS but compared to 4k->HD it is mush.

Im not sure it is your lenses but it may be. Maybe do some tests with a lens you know is sharp like a 50 at 5.6 or 8.

My lil test

 
ganzen2.JPG
Nikkor ED IF 5.6 400mm F8 400 mm crop (effective 800mm) 1/100 Pal25 cloudy sky.
 

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Same still, only changed 'Radius' from .50 to .45 in Davinci Resolve (second picture). Seems sharper to me.ganzen 3.JPGganzen4.JPG
 

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Shot last weekend with center crop -- no sharpening applied.

FS7
XAVC-I
180 fps
Center crop
Canon 200-400 f/4
Plane2.jpg
 

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I shot these last month with the FS7 @ 120 fps with center crop and a cheap $700 Canon 200mm f/2.8 prime (a good lens for traveling).


Bird4.jpgBird3.jpgBird2.jpgBird1.jpg







You can see these shots and many more (some are 4K with no center scan) in this video.
NO SHARPENING.

 
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