.25p on normal PAL TV

K

kfkok

Member
Dear all,

I've read tons of discussions on progressive shooting and still confused.

Ok, my question is simply this: If my output target is just direct miniDV, or converting into VCD and DVD, and the output will only be home use PAL TV; then if I'd like to get a good film-look VIDEO, will you recommend me to shoot in 25p or 50i? (lets not consider DOF or lighting issues here; and also transferring to film is out of my question). And, also please advice me on the post after shooting if 25p is your suggestion.

Thanks!
 
Re: .25p on normal PAL TV

If you want a film look....you NEED progressive (for motion rendition).

In post, you'd just edit it as any old 50i video...the CCD captures progressively, but it's recorded to tape as 50i.
 
Re: .25p on normal PAL TV

25p = filmlike, 50i = videolike. As to whether there's something legit to the complaints about how 25P looks on a PAL monitor, I cannot say. Some people say it's unacceptable, others say "what's the problem, it looks fine."
 
Re: .25p on normal PAL TV

Thanks Mike and Barry! That comfort me a lot.

Does anyone know any place to download some direct comparison of shooting the same thing simultaneously using the same DVX100(a) but with 50i (or 60i) and 25p (or 24p)? I saw one with DVX100 and PD150 but it's quite different there...even the cineGamma setting is there etc...hard to focus on seeing the difference in only progressive mode.
 
Re: .25p on normal PAL TV

You need to watch the 60i and 24p footage on an NTSC monitor, and the 50i and 25p footage on a PAL monitor. Computer monitors don't play interlaced footage, as far as I know, so the noticeable difference between the progressive and the interlaced footage becomes much narrower (especially in PAL territory). The computer de-interlaces everything, and plays it progressively, so it ends up looking more like low resolution progressive footage, as opposed to higher resolution (and true) progressive footage.

If you see it on a television, it'll look as it will in it's final form (assuming you're not shooting for the web). Seeing your stuff on a TV is really the only way to make a good decision.
 
Re: .25p on normal PAL TV

Thanks Mike! Then I have big trouble. The de-interlace video was badly strobing on interlace TV! The strobing is very different from film-look strobing--such as those movie DVDs or DVD that shot in 24p (dixie chicks concert)--when viewing on interlace TV.

Why?
 
Re: .25p on normal PAL TV

i´ll get a DVX pal fpr test next week and then i will make a few tests and let you know.
my test fields are these:
- mountainpanorama panned slow and fast
- skiers/snowboarders (extreme difference between snow and dark clothing with fast movement)
- cars passing, cityshots
- football training (again sports but less dramatic difference in the luma-regions)..and i mean football, not soccer...our Raiders rock!!
- restaurant/candlelightdinner

after this list is done i am sure i get a better picture if that strobing can be avoided and how it affects your workstyle (changing shutterspeed etc)
 
Re: .25p on normal PAL TV

the de-interlace video was badly strobing on interlace TV! The strobing is very different from film-look strobing--such as those movie DVDs or DVD that shot in 24p (dixie chicks concert)--when viewing on interlace TV.

Why?
Click to expand...

It very well could have been due to the method by which you de-interlaced the footage. If it was a bad interpolation, it could have been what made it look strobey...

I didn't realize that you were deciding whether or not to have 25P footage or 50i footage DEINTERLACED. If it's a question of shooting progressive or using de-interlaced footage, there's no question in my mind that the progressive footage will look FAR better.

I thought you were talking about using 50i footage natively, with no changes made with the fields.

De-interlaced footage in my experience NEVER looks nearly as good as true progressive footage.
 
Re: .25p on normal PAL TV

Hi Mike! Sorry that I've confused you...

Ok, my main concern is to judge whether progressive is really worth the price (I'm considering DVX100AE vs. VX2100E now). I love film-look, and I'm willing to pay the extra if it does worth the price. The question is, does DVX100AE's 25p really worth that price (it's around USD1,500 higher than VX2100 now).

Another major criteria is: I don't intend to blow my video to film (at least for a while).

Many people conplains that when showing 25p footage on interlace TV, it has strobing problem. My expectation is the 25p footage should have no problem (at least to get a dixie chicks DVD's quality--only talking about strobing here) when viewing on interlace TV without much effort in post (meaning, as long as we have done well during shooting--such as, not using fast shutter speed, pan slower etc.). And I can get a good film-look on interlace TV just like any movie DVDs (consider progressive)--nobody ever complain a movie DVD having strobing problem. Unless, you are telling me they need lots of effort in post to get rid off that possible strobing on interlace TV!

The de-interlaced I mentioned earlier was just that I wish to simulate progressive...since I don't have a chance to hand-on DVX100. I will never want to de-interlace any real work.

Thank you :)
 
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