25p findings

alpi69

Veteran
finally i had the chance to get my hold on a DVX-100. not (A)!!

after my initial test in vienna for several minutes only (in screenshot forum) i tested the DVX extensively now. especially the 25p mode of course since interlaced would not be a reason to leave our Betacam and PD-150 environment.
we also use some old VX1000s and they still produce better images than any miniDV-Canon IMO.

i shot on 1/50 shutter with manual iris on f5 in THICK mode. unfortuanetly it was overcast....

ok, what did i find out and correct me if i am wrong:
- the DVX is not very strong in low light. even 50i mode is much behind the sony DVcams. We have Betacams here that are similar in how much light they need. so for nighttime real-life documaentations this is not the cam. you do need additional light or use the GAIN switch a lot. in general this is not a bd thing, but for all who consider this cam and shoot events they need to be aware of it. old news huh....
- having said that: if you like "the filmlook" whatever it is this cam helps by forcing you to use wide aperatures which gives you a shallow DOF and i like that.
- the lens is sufficient in its zoomlength although i will need a tele soon. the wide 4.5mm is great and does meet most needs i guess.
- i read somewhere here: "use it like a filmcamera". i would go further: in 25p you HAVE TO use it like a filmcamera.
due to the special look the low framerate (when you think of 50 "frames" in the interlaced mode) you will run into problems when shooting handheld, panning at will, trying to focus on moving objects etc.
the 25p mode demands a tripod in every situation unless the shot calls for handheld. in any decent movie you will see the cam being on a tripod 95%. watch "American Beauty" and you will in fact see the cam off a tripod only once!).
when panning you need to be aware of the timing rules. you cannot be zoomed in to say Z85 and then simply pan over a house at will. you need to take your time to avoid jerky images.

i showed stuff to some friends and they shouted "that looks awful" when the saw the jerky images. i then showed them the same pan in correct speed (very slow indeed) and their jaw dropped when they saw correctly shot footage.

i don´t know if these jerky pans also appear on the NTSC/24p version. but they are here when you don´t take care.

the slomo: i am not convinced on it yet. i shot some streethockey and while some shots looked good in slomo (200%) with a great filmlike motionblur others looked like they missed a few frames in between (probably our eyes are simply used to 50i slomo).

- the EVF is absolute shite. it is impossible to focus with it. the screen is a little better, but barely. this is the biggest fault of the cam IMO. dunno if the 100A changed anything there. i never ever use autofocus on any cam, so a good screen is a must. oh well, i guess i will have to live with it.

OVERALL: i am pleased. the images this cam can make are awesom. if anyone wants i can link a jerky pan and a better one.
 
Re: 25p findings

Hi Alpi69

Next time when you are in Vienna give me a ring.
I will be happey to show you what this camera can do!.
(pls give me more then 10 min.)...

You are right about the viewfinder,this is the reason i am about to change the camera to the 100AE.

Stay in touch.

Johnnie
 
Re: 25p findings

Forgot to mention...
Maybe my camera is faulty but no jerky picture here. (and i use it alot handheld).


Johnnie
 
Re: 25p findings

Alpi69, your findings about the panning are exactly what they should be, and the same thing that happens in the NTSC camera.
 
Re: 25p findings

Hi Alpi69,

I find the paning awesome esp when you are following a subject . . . also hand held. I have done some fantastic nearly whip pans following a person at close range and . . . wow . . . they realy seam to pop out of the blurring bg!

PAL's 25p I find, is also a clean frame rate to relate to the traditional 50i timeline without needing to introduce 24p (whic is close enough at this point, if you are not going to film).

A Q to the NTSC guys . . . do you get a slight slo-mo effect using 30p and laying it down on a 24p timeline?

And as regards hanheld shooting and the VF I am starting to feel that it is becoming an aquired skill to focus and then feel your way in and out of the right distance between you and your subject . . it also makes interesting viewing if done right in my opinion. Never the less cine camera focus pullers on distance and not on what they see in the viewfinder. A real great focus puller wont even get out his tape measure.
 
Re: 25p findings

[quote author=theos link=board=Events;num=1085673627;start=0#5 date=05/27/04 at 22:32:54]Hi Alpi69,

I find the paning awesome esp when you are following a subject . . . also hand held. I have done some fantastic nearly whip pans following a person at close range and . . . wow . . . they realy seam to pop out of the blurring bg!.[/quote]

yes, definitely: when you are able to separate them with a shallower DOF it is great.
but if you are 50 meters from a house and follow a car passing that house and both are in focus than i seemed to run into problems at certain paningspeeds. at least with 1/50 shutter.

@opherba: i will tell you next time i get to vienna in july.
 
Re: 25p findings

Hmm i am not sure if it is focous as in DOF or focus vs motion blurred that made my difference
 
Re: 25p findings

theos, what is your detail setting at?
it was minus2 on the cam i tested. i didn´t change it, but setting it lower might have helped.
 
Re: 25p findings

Here are a couple of screen grabs about the movement

blur01.jpg


blur02.jpg


It is true I have a close subject but I was wide open and close. The last thing is they have been desaturated and coloured in After effects so dont mind them in that sence.
 
Re: 25p findings

The first picture is still showing some interlace artifacts on the edges... are you working and rendering in a full progressive mode all the time? I would expect to see blur, but what I am seeing is 1 field worth of blur. Perhaps you export to JPEG was not progressive?

Michael
 
Re: 25p findings

i wondered about that too. to me it looks exactly as my tests did.
bringing down the detail helped a bit, but it is still there for me.
 
Re: 25p findings

Checked it as it looked funny to me to! It is not an iterlaced frame but an interpolated premiere slomo frame . . . now I fiigured it out! here s another frame not rendered in slo mo
blur03.jpg
 
Re: 25p findings

The second frame doesn't show it, but the first one does. What NLE are yiou using for the capture and export?
 
Re: 25p findings

Like I said above MIke premier is what I am editing in & I am using a Martox card whic does a slomo by blending frames. That frame was exported from such a slo mo ed sequense, so the interlace was actualy a frame blend, above is a similar frame from the same footage not slo mo ed.
 
Re: 25p findings

Ah.. much better. Yes the field blending takes one field from one frame and another field from another frame thus the interlace artifacts. I skipped over the part about it being a motion effect. That explains it.
 
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