24pn strobing look disturbing

A

ajmax

Well-known member
when I shoot 720 24pn and I make slow pans and tilts. The strobing look to the image is disturbing.

How can I stop this? Is it a shutter solution? If so, what number?
I hat not to shoot in 720 24pn because of one or two pans that have this problem...
 
Strobing

Strobing

In his book on the HVX, Barry Green includes a pan speed chart adapted for the HVX from the American Society of Cinematographers. The chart gives pan speeds across 90 degrees at 24 and 30 fps. Basically, the longer the lens, the slower the pan to avoid strobing. Slower shutter speeds or higher frame rates can mitigate the problem as well.

This is an issue as old as filming itself. Aside from controlling the speed of the pan, the easiest way to minimize the problem is to pan along with a moving object. The eye's attention will follow the object and never notice the strobing of the background.
 
where can i get the book?
the pans are usually slow and ususally are a problem with static objects, like a building or a wall,,,etc...
 
First, find a way to afford the $89; the book has tons of "how to" info and will help you avoid the "gotchas".

Second, in a thread I posted on another forum I did a series of tests comparing motion in video cameras vs. film, specifically with the HVX200 and HPX500. Turns out, the output from the HVX/HPX @ 24p has more motion blur than an actual film using *similar* focal lengths.

If you're not in a tele-cine or film-transfer workflow, shoot in 30p rather than 24p in the HVX; the motion blur (caused either by moving objects or camera movement) will actually look more like a film camera does.

Remember that video cameras do not have a physical shutter inside, so they have to use software and chipset trickery to simulate shutter effects. That simulation varies from model to model and isn't perfect, however the Varicam @ 24p replicates motion blur much more accurately than the HVX - and it should considering the price-tag.

Get Barry's book, it's an investment worth ten-times the cost.
 
Watch blockbuster movies and you'll see the same strobe in pans / tilts / handheld camera, cranes, travellings, etc
That is how 24P is for all the industry.
Many TV shows are shot in 60P, what smooths that.
Change your mind or record in 60i for smooth pans in video.
But remember that world is moving to progressive TV's.

Ulisses
 
Robert Lane said:
If you're not in a tele-cine or film-transfer workflow, shoot in 30p rather than 24p in the HVX; the motion blur (caused either by moving objects or camera movement) will actually look more like a film camera does.
Click to expand...

I can't say as I agree . . . 30p and 24p are not the same, and 24p looks more like 24 fps film. If you want 24p, the solution is to shoot 24p and learn to work with it.

Aimax, it sounds like you're still moving the camera too quickly. You may think you're moving it slowly, but it actually needs to be slower than you'd think, and the longer your lens (the more zoomed in you are), the slower you have to move it to avoid the strobe -- or at least the unwanted strobe. (You need a little bit in order for it to look cinematic.)
 
Here's the simplest rule for panning speed: an object should take 7 seconds to cross the screen. If it moves faster than that, it's gonna strobe.

Or, even simpler, just look in your monitor -- you'll see it happening. Either slow down so that the strobing doesn't happen, or speed up so that you get the pan over with as quickly as possible (a whip pan) and nobody'll see or notice the strobing.
 
welcome to true 24p.

learn to pan slower or to love the stobe look. or if you must pan quick, try a 1/24 shutter. will add more motion blur and make your image a little softer but helps with strobing and low light shooting.
 
Reducing DOF also helps if you are tracking a subject during the pan by rendering the background out of focus.
 
Okay guys,
here is an example of what I am talking abut the strobing.
When I am shooting, what can I set my cam to so I can eliminate the strobing on my pans while shooting 720 24pn.
click on the link and then click on the video that says pearland and play. the shot is a pan with people inside an airport. It is after a shot of a plane taking off
www.ajmaxbiz.com
Thanks,
 
That's judder -- the pan is simply too fast. The only way to smooth it out is to slow it down or increase the framerate.
 
Definitely normal 24p (and 24 fps) judder. Most people will be looking at the plane, though, which is one of the tricks of hiding the judder. A shallower depth of field would have been a big help here.
 
Thanks Guys,,,
it's the shot after the plane...
and I can not pan any slower or faster.
You mentioned frame rate. that sounds familiar form Barry's video...
What Frame rate do you recommend and do i loose audio if I use the recommended frame rate?
Thanks,,,
 
ajmax said:
I can't spend $89 to find out the answer to one question...
Can you help?
Thanks
Click to expand...

If you can spend $5000 on a camera and $1000 on P2 cards I'm sure you can find $89 to answer every question you will ever have about the HVX explained in plain language instead of the manual's technical style.

$89 will make you get 100% of the functionality out of your camera instead of the 10% you probably will get without it.
 
or buy the American cinematography manual and learn how a film camera works, mainly shooting at 24F.

Ulisses
 
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