24pA problem

J

jpastuch

Carbonite Member
I shot on the dvx100 with 24pA, and then captured it into a 24fps timeline in FCP. When I went to edit in the sequence, it told me my clip speed did not match my timeline speed, and if I wanted to automatically adjust it. So I instinctively said yes, because I figured it had something to do with pulldown or something.

Anyway, I keep editing, and soon notice my sound seems VERY slightly out of sync sometimes- I go and check the settings on the sequence, and it says 29.97 is the timeline base and it's of course unchangeable. So I copy my whole sequence into a new 24fps sequence and render. Now it looks much choppier in 24 fps and when I look on my TV monitor hooked up to the DV deck, the image doesn't move at all- I can jog through it, but once it's playing, the image stays on a whatever still I start it on the monitor.

Anyway I can fix this, or should I just stick with the 29.97 timeline? The sync issue isn't huge, and it might just be in my head. I just don't get whats going on.
 
Here's a good question for you...

WHY did you capture at 24fps?

Did you not do ANY research on what 24pA really is and how to use it?

Not being an ass here, but there are quite a few posts (including stickies) right here at the FCP part of DVXuser that would have saved you A LOT of time.

Read up on them and then come back with some questions.

OR -- stick to your 29.97 sequence and hope for the best.

But I suggest starting over and capturing properly.

CaptM
 
Damn. Of course, the Cap'n right BUT...don't think 24 fps...think 23.98 fps.

Don't let my easy answer dissuade you from reading the post the Cap'n suggested, though, it'll make it much easier for you and you'll be miles ahead of where you are now.
 
That and still, think CADENCE and the fact that 24pA (or 24p for that matter) is STILL 29.97 on the tape. If you try to capture it at 24 or even 23.98 you'll be in trouble.

CaptM
 
Sorry, I kind of phrased my post really wrong- I CAPTURED at 29.97 with pulldown but when I put it in my 24fps SEQUENCE which I set before I started editing, that message popped up asking if I wanted to automatically adjust my sequence fps to my clip speed...since my clip speed was technically 29.97. I just clicked yes without thinking, so now my sequence is 29.97 permanently...I tried switching the clips to a 24fps sequence and that's when my problem kicked in. Should I just try copying the clips to a 23.98 sequence then? Maybe this is my problem?
 
jpastuch said:
...since my clip speed was technically 29.97. I just clicked yes without thinking, so now my sequence is 29.97 permanently...I tried switching the clips to a 24fps sequence and that's when my problem kicked in. Should I just try copying the clips to a 23.98 sequence then? Maybe this is my problem?
Click to expand...

If your clips were properly captured with the pull-down removal, they should be 23.98.
 
jpastuch said:
Sorry, I kind of phrased my post really wrong- I CAPTURED at 29.97 with pulldown
Click to expand...

PHEW!!!! Ok. Knowing to do that's 90% of the battle.

UNFORTUNATELY, the cadence removal can be wonky. IOW, it might NOT have removed it. Usually it STOPS when not doing it correctly, but you might have had the warning turned off. I've seen this before. (You should always leave the alert warnings on.)

OK -- so, create a new sequence. Make it 29.97. Set the canvas to 100% and drop a few seconds of the captured material into it.

Step thru frame by frame and count how many 'interlaced' frames you see for every 5 frames of video. You should see either 2 or 1. 2 will tell us that the camera was actually set to 3.2 cadence or 24p mode and 1 will tell us that indeed camera was capturing with 2.3.3.2 cadence and 24pA mode. That's important to know for sure.

IF there were cadence breaks in the 24pA cadence FCP won't capture properly. What you need to do now is break up the captured clip into usable segments, re-import and remove the cadence with the TOOLS menu.

Actually -- try this first (if it does indeed have 1 'interlaced' frame): Select the clip in the browser window and then TOOLS - Remove Advanced Pulldown.

If it worked, great - edit away in a 23.98 sequence. If not...

Load the captured clip into the viewer and set an IN and an OUT for an area you KNOW didn't stop the camera recording. Drop that into a 29.97 sequence and FILE - EXPORT - QT MOVIE - Self-contained Current Settings. Name it.

Import THAT clip into the browser and do the TOOLS - Remove Adv Pulldown. That should work. Do it for the rest of the capture.

24pA mode was never meant to be edited in 29.97. It looks gross when played.

Let us know how it's going. Good luck,

CaptM
 
OK, so I apparently might not have removed the pulldown from the clips while importing- at least not all of them (unfortunately I'm using a computer at school, and people constantly change things).

I tried selecting the clip and using the tool menu to remove the pulldown- it worked. I out it in a 23.98 timeline and it's running smoothly- but now, the audio in the clip cuts out completely after a few seconds.

Also, some clips say there was a break in the cadence (the thing you mentioned), so I might have to try your other method.

Finally, if I shot this with the DVX100 (not a or b) in regular 4:3 mode, should I leave my aspect ratio as the default NTSC DV 3:2? I only say this because when I switch to 4:3 it puts a black border around the entire picture on the monitor.

The most important problem I'm having is the sound cut out now.
 
Yo. I just set the capture settings pulldown and timeline to 23.98 with the advanced pulldownand everything runs great on my fcp with 24pa dvx footage. I don't know why captain mench makes everything seem so ****ing hard. It isn't that hard, just make sure that it plays without needing to be rendered then do your business. I cut on a 24 frame timeline with my 24pa footage from my well loved dvx, and everything is fine.
 
OK, i tried re-capturing a tet clip in 24PA with the capture setting and everything correct- it works fine, but in a 23.98 timeline my audio is now EVEN MORE out of sync. I'm positive I taped in 24PA. This is getting frustrating.
 
The next look would be to see if the audio was recorded in 12 bit or 16.

CaptM (Where the M stands for Makin' it hard)
 
I mean, was the camera set up for recording in 16 bit? Just checking.

THAT would cause sync issues. As much as I've had issues with broken timecode and pA mode, I've never had issues with sync.

Now... is your audio consistently out of sync or is it gradual?

CaptM
 
jpastuch said:
Cam was set up for 16 bit, and my sync problem is consistent.
Click to expand...

Are you monitoring the audio via the same source you are monitoring the video?

I mean, if you are listening to the audio out of the computer audio and watching the video on the FW you could have sync issues (or the other way around).

Make sure AUDIO FOLLOWS VIDEO at the bottom of the VIEW menu.

CaptM
 
Man I am dumb, that looks like it was it.

I'm just going to recapture my whole project just to make sure EVERYTHING is DEFINITELY right going in. But damn, you weren't kidding about the pulldown removal being annoying- I have really long takes too, so doubly annoying.

Anyway, thanks again everyone for your help, specifically Mench.
 
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