These TVs try to fix the strobe-fest of stone-aged 24p standard.
24p vs 30p vs 60p vs 60i
- Thread starter Jonathan12uiz
- Start date
Blackout
Veteran
Cranky?
These TVs try to fix the 'strobe'fest of the stone aged 24p standard?!??
If so, why don't all the directors who shoot narrative TV dramas that do NOT need to distributed to film theaters shoot 30p or 60p? Why do they all still shoot 24p? This is here in thepresent, not the stone age - and they - and most viewers, like the look of 24p. If not there wouldn't be this whole industry of cameras even at the consumer level now supporting it. People like and want the look.
24p shot with a 48 shutter is not that 'stroby' and is perfectly fine on movement if you follow certain guidelines because the motion blur from frame to frame covers it. Most non pros who shoot 24p have their shutter set wrong and it looks awfull. I turned OFF the features on these TVs and the movie looked like a movie again, not a bad soap opera. Who would WANT to view movie like this =degraded as far as I am concerned is beyond me.
Yes, as I said you can definately tell 30p from 24p... I inly use it in an emergency screw up situation where someone I shot with the shutter at 30p.
ANOTHER thing to remember is that evertone who is shooting with the panasonic gh1 at 60p and conforming to 24p - it does NOT look anywhere as good as shooting at the real 24p of 1080 and removing the pulldown and having the real 24p. The motion characteristics are different and 60p conformed to 24p looks 'choppier' than true 24p shot in the 1080 mood.
I have tested this over and over and watched all the videos testing this and played with twixtor and all the other ways, and it just doesn't look as good as shooting in true 24p.
These TVs try to fix the 'strobe'fest of the stone aged 24p standard?!??
If so, why don't all the directors who shoot narrative TV dramas that do NOT need to distributed to film theaters shoot 30p or 60p? Why do they all still shoot 24p? This is here in thepresent, not the stone age - and they - and most viewers, like the look of 24p. If not there wouldn't be this whole industry of cameras even at the consumer level now supporting it. People like and want the look.
24p shot with a 48 shutter is not that 'stroby' and is perfectly fine on movement if you follow certain guidelines because the motion blur from frame to frame covers it. Most non pros who shoot 24p have their shutter set wrong and it looks awfull. I turned OFF the features on these TVs and the movie looked like a movie again, not a bad soap opera. Who would WANT to view movie like this =degraded as far as I am concerned is beyond me.
Yes, as I said you can definately tell 30p from 24p... I inly use it in an emergency screw up situation where someone I shot with the shutter at 30p.
ANOTHER thing to remember is that evertone who is shooting with the panasonic gh1 at 60p and conforming to 24p - it does NOT look anywhere as good as shooting at the real 24p of 1080 and removing the pulldown and having the real 24p. The motion characteristics are different and 60p conformed to 24p looks 'choppier' than true 24p shot in the 1080 mood.
I have tested this over and over and watched all the videos testing this and played with twixtor and all the other ways, and it just doesn't look as good as shooting in true 24p.
Last edited:
Blackout
Veteran
Does anyone have Cyberlink Power DVD9? Go put in a good enhanced for widescreen dvd film, then turn on its magic smooth motion feature... and you tell me if you can deal with watching a movie that now looks like a soap opera at 60fps... other than as some strange novelty to see what it looked like live on the set and see how plasticy that plaster molded alien head really looked that you never noticed at 24p.
Last edited:
alignment1
Well-known member
29.97 refers to frames per second = 59.94 FIELDS per second
Blackout
Veteran
yes.... but it is 59.94 CHANGES in motion.... fields is an old tube TV thing.. who the hell needs fields anymore?
Yes I know... to broadcast to the old tv sets in most household, but still your production doesn't have to be in field the dvd, bluray player or broadcast station should do that pulldown for you.
Yes I know... to broadcast to the old tv sets in most household, but still your production doesn't have to be in field the dvd, bluray player or broadcast station should do that pulldown for you.
How do you think 1080i is broadcast?
Yak
Well-known member
Well that is the correct term "field". I do agree that shooting with Fields ie. interlaced is no longer necessary, that is why I prefer recording in a true progressive format with out the interlaced artifacts, ether 24P or 30P which ever look you or your client prefers.
Cableaddict
Member
Reviving this old post, because it's still one of the most detailed and interesting on the subject.
I am definitely in the "24 fps clearly looks better than 30" camp. I wish I wasn't, because I have lately been reading that almost all internet content is 30p. I realize that bumping up from 24 to 30 won't lessen the 24 fps effect, but there will certainly be other losses.
So, 2 questions:
1: Is there currently any way to present true 24p on YouTube, Websites, etc?
2: If not, what is the best method for ending up with quality 30p, assuming you want the 24 fps look? (and one has to now consider the source option of 24p native, besides 24p @ 60i with pulldown)
-----------------------------------------------------
BTW: I find the part about needing to be viewed in a dim theatre quite interesting. Why the heck isn't there a 48p (or 50p for PAL) standard? One could then shoot either 24p, but bump the camera to 48 for certain panning or high contrast / brightness situations. The editing & final delivery mechanisms would be simple. Problem solved, sort of.
I am definitely in the "24 fps clearly looks better than 30" camp. I wish I wasn't, because I have lately been reading that almost all internet content is 30p. I realize that bumping up from 24 to 30 won't lessen the 24 fps effect, but there will certainly be other losses.
So, 2 questions:
1: Is there currently any way to present true 24p on YouTube, Websites, etc?
2: If not, what is the best method for ending up with quality 30p, assuming you want the 24 fps look? (and one has to now consider the source option of 24p native, besides 24p @ 60i with pulldown)
-----------------------------------------------------
BTW: I find the part about needing to be viewed in a dim theatre quite interesting. Why the heck isn't there a 48p (or 50p for PAL) standard? One could then shoot either 24p, but bump the camera to 48 for certain panning or high contrast / brightness situations. The editing & final delivery mechanisms would be simple. Problem solved, sort of.
1) YouTube, dunno. They may automatically convert everything to 30p, but I think they may allow for 23.976, too. Beyond that, you can do any frame rate on the web.
2) Conversions from 24p to 30p are often very problematic, because there's not enough difference between them. No, there's no cadence which would allow for 24p motion in a 30p stream as there is (more or less) in a 60hz stream.
2) Conversions from 24p to 30p are often very problematic, because there's not enough difference between them. No, there's no cadence which would allow for 24p motion in a 30p stream as there is (more or less) in a 60hz stream.
Ian-T
Veteran
Personally I'd shoot 48p all the time....just in case I need a good slow mo every now and then.
There is one exception to this. If you shoot 1080p @ 30 FPS with the 80% slow down it works very well in the GH2. It also gives you the higher bit rate.
i shoot it because at 720p i get 60fps. and it simply looks smoother which in turn looks better to my viewers.