24P vs. 24PA in Sesame Street terms?

S

savethestars

Active member
Hi everyone,

Can one of you tech-Gods, (Barry), please tell me in basic Sesame Street terms, (no Elmo, please), if I should shoot in 24P or 24PA, without the use of diagrams of little colored frame boxes of A's and B's and C's and D's?

I have read about the subject but it overwhelms me. As far as I can tell, there's really no reason to choose 24P over 24PA, if, like me, you:

1) Will use FCP4

2) May or may not go out to film, (depends on how the project comes out), but definitely will go to DVD and want to project the work onscreen.

Correct?

I guess what I'm asking is, why would you want to shoot 24P when you could shoot 24PA? Is it for people who don't have FCP4 or Vegas?
 
Re: 24P vs. 24PA in Sesame Street terms?

24pA was designed so that DV based editors could work natively at 24 frames (23.98) without the need to decompress or recompress the DV stream. The redundant frame is just dropped upon capture into the NLE. This gives you native 24 frame editing, 20% more storage on your drives, and the ability to easily created progressive 24p DVD's as well as a NTSC output by outputting 2:3 pulldown.

If you did not want to edit at native 24p, you can just as easily edit 24p shot footage in a 30i project/timeline and it will retain the look and feel of the 24 frame capture, but you will have to do more work later to create a progressive DVD etc. You can always make a standard interlace DVD woith no problem.

Since it is so easy to capture and edit natively at 24fps, it does give you more flexibility later for outut so shooting 24pA would be your best bet.

Michael
 
Re: 24P vs. 24PA in Sesame Street terms?

Hi guys!

What about 25p? Applies the same?
And specially if there could be a third possibliity:
May or may not go out to film or national broadcast.

Which is the drawback for any of this medium if shooting with 25PA ? I have heard that on a PAL interlaced monitor there is some noise which should be the big target of a national broadcast(on europe).


TOM
 
Re: 24P vs. 24PA in Sesame Street terms?

There is no pulldown cadences associated with PAL. The frame rate is alwaus 25fps and you can choose between progressive or interlace. If planning on going out to film, shoot progressive. Progressively shot material will look great on either progressive monitors, film, plasma, as well as interlace TV monitors.

Michael
 
Re: 24P vs. 24PA in Sesame Street terms?

Thanks MichaelP !

I just shoot progressive now that my technichal problem with AVid is solved thank to your and DVX forum's help. ;D

But i wonder if the question is that "i may or not go to film (or national broadcast)". Which is the drawback of using 25pa if at the end i couldn't go to film? Limitations?
There should be a drawback for the PAL world to use 25Pa otherwise the why should the 24p normal mode excist?

thanks //TOM
 
Re: 24P vs. 24PA in Sesame Street terms?

There is no "normal" or "advanced" in the PAL camera.

PAL 25P works the same as NTSC 30P. One frame is divided into two fields.

There should be no reason not to use 25P, provided you like the filmlike look.
 
Re: 24P vs. 24PA in Sesame Street terms?

Tom -

You can shoot either interlace or progressive depending on the look you want to have. There are plenty of programs shot on film at 25fps that are meant for broadcast only because of the look. You can get close to the same when shooting 25p with the DVX100.

Working in a 25p project will maintain the look and feel through the post production process.

Michael
 
Re: 24P vs. 24PA in Sesame Street terms?

Thanks guys.

I only shoot on 25P, never on interlaced or 50i. I mean by 25Pnormal the scene 5 on my pal camera. And by 25Padvance the scene6 which actually is called Scene CINE (it has Vdetail Thin instead of Thick(which scene5 has ) and Detail level 0 instead of -5(which scene5 has) ). Maybe i was wrong calling it that way., My doubt had more to do with choosing between my scene 5 or 6.

I may now translate my question with more exact terms :) :


But i wonder if the question is that "i may or not go to film (or national broadcast)". Which is the drawback of using The scene6 if at the end i wouldn' t be able go to film? Which are the limitatiions of the scene6 settings?
There should be a drawback for the PAL world to use the scene6 otherwise the why should the option on the dial for the scene5?

thanks in advance for your patience ::)
 
Re: 24P vs. 24PA in Sesame Street terms?

As far as outputting the 2:3 pulldown and coming up with a progressive DVD.  Does anyone know how to do this within the FCP>Compressor>DVDSP framework?
 
Re: 24P vs. 24PA in Sesame Street terms?

Tom_Borg

as you said the difference between scene 5 and scene 6 is Vdetail which is Thick in scene 5 and thin in scene 6. The purpose of scene 5 is when you are filming for tv only. If you use scene 6, you can have some flickering when you watch your footage on a regular tv. With scene 5, the camera does some king of blurring so you don't have the flickering.

But from what I know you can use scene 6 and add a little vertical blur in post and you will have the same result as in scene 5.

So shoot scene 6 to have the best quality and tweak in post if needed.

Alex
 
Re: 24P vs. 24PA in Sesame Street terms?

:o thanks a lot Alex!

I had also heard of the flickering therefor i was surprised to read in this post that one could use progressive advance althoug there was a possibility to show on TV and not a filmout. Your recomendation (to use a little of blur) would answer my doubts about using Progressive advance or better know as Thin or scene 6 althoug there would be just a 30% possibility to go to a filmout.

I edit with Avid xpress pro. Which program would you recommend to do this little amount of blur? Which program use you self? And which settings to blur (i mean how much of blur int the program you use to to de blur) would you or any other persona that have proved this kind of method recommend?

How about you guys? Barry? Michael?

Thanks to everybody ::)
 
Re: 24P vs. 24PA in Sesame Street terms?

I use Vegas, and there's an option to "reduce interlace flicker", which causes the appropriate amount of interline blur in one quick step.
 
Re: 24P vs. 24PA in Sesame Street terms?

That sound great Barry, ;D :the possibilitie of using always scene6 (thin, 25pa)
!
Hej Barry , just for curiosisty Does this option apply some kind of blur?

Any Avid Xpress Pro User? MichaelP do u have a Avid 25p combo option?

thanks
TOM
 
Re: 24P vs. 24PA in Sesame Street terms?

Yes, it blurs the lines together on the even/odd fields, so there's some overlap between fields.
 
Re: 24P vs. 24PA in Sesame Street terms?

Thanks Barry!!

Now i just wait to soma Avid guru to show me the way to go with my little xpress pro in order to get the same result as with that great Vegas "reduce interlace flicker" option.

thanks again
//TOM
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top