I think I'm getting close to buying a DVX, but I had this question about the final look of shooting in 24p vs. just shooting 60i with a lesser camera and then running it through a 24p filter. More specifically, I just shot a scene in 60i with a cheap camera and processed it with the Nattress 24p filter. On playback, it looked more jumpy than I would have expected, especially during a fast pan. Is this just the 24p look or is the jumpiness a function of using a filter rather than shooting in true 24p? Or, maybe I'm just not used to seeing the 24p motion effect, though that seems unlikely to me since I'm no stranger to watching Hollywood movies. Is the DVX look less jumpy, or are my personal aesthetics just a little off?
24p in-camera vs. 24p filter
- Thread starter briankay
- Start date
HorseFilms
Look ma no hands
Re: 24p in-camera vs. 24p filter
First off, you'll want to pan slower when shooting 24p (or something that will end up being 24p). Treat it like a big, heavy film camera. Shooting native 24p with the DVX will yield far better results. Converting 60i to 24p will cost you a lot of resolution.
First off, you'll want to pan slower when shooting 24p (or something that will end up being 24p). Treat it like a big, heavy film camera. Shooting native 24p with the DVX will yield far better results. Converting 60i to 24p will cost you a lot of resolution.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: 24p in-camera vs. 24p filter
[quote author=briankay link=board=Events;num=1098121720;start=0#0 date=10/18/04 at 10:48:40]On playback, it looked more jumpy than I would have expected, especially during a fast pan. Is this just the 24p look or is the jumpiness a function of using a filter rather than shooting in true 24p? Or, maybe I'm just not used to seeing the 24p motion effect, though that seems unlikely to me since I'm no stranger to watching Hollywood movies. Is the DVX look less jumpy, or are my personal aesthetics just a little off? [/quote]
I went into this in extensive detail on the new DVD, to finally try to prove it once and for all.
The DVX renders motion exactly like film does, and film is every bit as "jumpy" and "strobey" as the DVX is. Your 60i->24P simulation may not have been as smooth as genuine 24P (in fact I can't see how it could be) but if you execute a fast pan on a genuine 24P camera, you'll see extensive strobing.
[quote author=briankay link=board=Events;num=1098121720;start=0#0 date=10/18/04 at 10:48:40]On playback, it looked more jumpy than I would have expected, especially during a fast pan. Is this just the 24p look or is the jumpiness a function of using a filter rather than shooting in true 24p? Or, maybe I'm just not used to seeing the 24p motion effect, though that seems unlikely to me since I'm no stranger to watching Hollywood movies. Is the DVX look less jumpy, or are my personal aesthetics just a little off? [/quote]
I went into this in extensive detail on the new DVD, to finally try to prove it once and for all.
The DVX renders motion exactly like film does, and film is every bit as "jumpy" and "strobey" as the DVX is. Your 60i->24P simulation may not have been as smooth as genuine 24P (in fact I can't see how it could be) but if you execute a fast pan on a genuine 24P camera, you'll see extensive strobing.
J
Jestorius
Guest
Re: 24p in-camera vs. 24p filter
your "personal aesthetics" isn't off. It shouldn't be jumpy but blury. Adjust the shutter speed if you don't want the jumpy look.
your "personal aesthetics" isn't off. It shouldn't be jumpy but blury. Adjust the shutter speed if you don't want the jumpy look.
J
Jestorius
Guest
Re: 24p in-camera vs. 24p filter
It's not bad operation. If you have to make a fast pan (storyboard) than you have to make a fast pan. In this case a shutter speed adjustment is important.
It's not bad operation. If you have to make a fast pan (storyboard) than you have to make a fast pan. In this case a shutter speed adjustment is important.
disjecta
Lucky Duck
Re: 24p in-camera vs. 24p filter
Everyone who operates a film camera learns about the limitations in pan and tilt speeds. If you are going for either a 24p look or shooting 24p, you need to try to conform to these rules.
Study some of your favorite films and take a look at how slow the camera pans and tilts. There is a reason for that, mainly the limitations of the medium.
There are also some intentionally stuttering effects using fast shutter speeds ala Saving Private Ryan, etc. So there are creative ways around these problems.
Everyone who operates a film camera learns about the limitations in pan and tilt speeds. If you are going for either a 24p look or shooting 24p, you need to try to conform to these rules.
Study some of your favorite films and take a look at how slow the camera pans and tilts. There is a reason for that, mainly the limitations of the medium.
There are also some intentionally stuttering effects using fast shutter speeds ala Saving Private Ryan, etc. So there are creative ways around these problems.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: 24p in-camera vs. 24p filter
Jestorius does have a point, if you are doing a specific pan and the aesthetics of the shot demand a certain panning speed, and that speed will make it strobe, then going to a slower shutter speed can lessen the harshness of the strobing effect.
Strobing is controlled in three ways: by careful administration of camera movement, by following a relatively stationary subject in the frame, or by using a slower shutter speed (which helps some, but also introduces much more "smear" into the picture).
I think IAL's saying that you shouldn't just automatically reach for a slower shutter speed, you should learn the best way to control the camera to keep strobing under control, but Jestorius is pointing out that a slower shutter speed is another tool you can use.
Jestorius does have a point, if you are doing a specific pan and the aesthetics of the shot demand a certain panning speed, and that speed will make it strobe, then going to a slower shutter speed can lessen the harshness of the strobing effect.
Strobing is controlled in three ways: by careful administration of camera movement, by following a relatively stationary subject in the frame, or by using a slower shutter speed (which helps some, but also introduces much more "smear" into the picture).
I think IAL's saying that you shouldn't just automatically reach for a slower shutter speed, you should learn the best way to control the camera to keep strobing under control, but Jestorius is pointing out that a slower shutter speed is another tool you can use.