24p footage displayed on NTSC screens

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mk23

Member
Here's another 24p question, I understand that when you shoot 24p video the camera captures at 29.97 but marks the 24 frames so that the extra frames could be removed in editing. Now here's my question, if the 24p footage will then be displayed on screen that displays at 29.97 (all NTSC) doesn't that mean that extra frames will be added once again?, this makes the whole process seem pointless.

Maybe i'm the one confused but I just dont get the whole frame rate conversion, even with VFR I totally don't understand how VFR shooting is different from simply shooting normal frame rate and adjusting playback speed in post.

thx
 
Well TV is not progressive, so it's just interlaced 29.97 or whatever. No need to add more frames.
 
huh??!!

i dont get what ur sayin, its the same thing, doesn't matter progressive or interlaced its still 30fps not 24, I think maybe U didn't understand my question
 
mk23 said:
Here's another 24p question, I understand that when you shoot 24p video the camera captures at 29.97 but marks the 24 frames so that the extra frames could be removed in editing. Now here's my question, if the 24p footage will then be displayed on screen that displays at 29.97 (all NTSC) doesn't that mean that extra frames will be added once again?, this makes the whole process seem pointless.
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If your goal was to stay with interlaced video then yes it might be somewhat pointless.

If you intend to author a 24p DVD, which can be played back on LCD or Plasma or HDTV sets or on computer screens or transferred to film, then the whole process makes a lot more sense. 24p DVDs will play the original 24 frames, or (if connected to an interlaced television) they'll take care of adding in the pulldown to convert it to an interlaced signal.

even with VFR I totally don't understand how VFR shooting is different from simply shooting normal frame rate and adjusting playback speed in post.
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Variable frame rates is infinitely superior to trying to do some post manipulation. Variable frame rates actually clocks the CCD to the speed you're trying to capture at, so you get proper motion sampling. If you're shooting two frames per second, each frame can have exposure of 1/2 of a second. If you're trying to do it in post that would mean trying to blend 30 different fields together to sort of emulate the natural motion blur that would happen with a 1/2 second exposure. There's no comparison.
 
Tom Lowe said:
Well TV is not progressive, so it's just interlaced 29.97 or whatever. No need to add more frames.
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Broadcast TV is not progressive but DVD's are. Files made with your computer can be progressive. I can't believe how many producers insist on a 29.97 DVD and then turn around and only play it in a computer and ask what are the funny sawtooth lines? I shoot, edit and deliver progressive as much as possible. The last time I was at a trade show 95% of the displays showing video were progressive, DLP, LCD, Plasma. The ones touting 60i HD video are the ones that bought those cameras. When you de-interlace a 60i video it halves the resoultion and you loose the perceived "higher quality resoultion". Once you shoot, edit and deliver a true 24p DVD the benefits are obvious.
 
Thanks a lot guys, those last two posts cleared up a lot of confusion for me,

The stuff i'm shooting is for a demo reel dvd, so I need it to playback well on different kinds of displays (progressive and interlaced).

I guess what you are sayin is that a 24p dvd would obviously look better on progressive displays and look just as good as any other option on interlaced displays. So since I can edit in 24frames and author as well I think I'm gonna do all shooting in 24p for sure.

And Barry Green the whole VFR issue is really a load off my mind cuz i didnt understand what the hype was about.

Thank a lot guys
 
one more thing though,

Barry Green you said earlier "24p DVDs will play the original 24 frames, or (if connected to an interlaced television) they'll take care of adding in the pulldown to convert it to an interlaced signal."

I get all the interlaced vs progressive stuff and the pulldown, but still a big part of my question remains, is it impossible for our eyes to actually see 24 frames per second like we do in the movie theatre?.
 
mk23 said:
one more thing though,

Barry Green you said earlier "24p DVDs will play the original 24 frames, or (if connected to an interlaced television) they'll take care of adding in the pulldown to convert it to an interlaced signal."

I get all the interlaced vs progressive stuff and the pulldown, but still a big part of my question remains, is it impossible for our eyes to actually see 24 frames per second like we do in the movie theatre?.
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Interlaced TV's still play at 29.97. If you shoot, edit and make a 24p DVD it does look different than if you shot and edited 29.97. Bottom line - you gotta go through and do all these things for it all to make sense. I forever shot and edited at 30p with my DVX-100. I was using Vegas at the time and did not like all the steps to go through to make a 24p DVD. Now with HVX and FCP it is just to easy and does produce the best results. (As far as my eyes go).
 
mk23 said:
I get all the interlaced vs progressive stuff and the pulldown, but still a big part of my question remains, is it impossible for our eyes to actually see 24 frames per second like we do in the movie theatre?.
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Why would it be impossible?

Play any Hollywood DVD on your computer, and you'll see 24 progressive frames. No interlacing, no pulldown, just progressive frames. Or play it on a progressive-scan DVD player that's hooked to an LCD or plasma TV. 24 frames, and only 24 frames.
 
wow, really?,

I was under the impression that any NTSC system will display 29.97 fps because of electricity regardless of progressive or interlaced.
 
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