24p Editing: The War Continues

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esmooov

New member
After careful scrutiny of these boards I have learned that if I edit in 29.97 timeline in Avid I should shoot in 24pN. However, this may result in some quality loss. However, I will be able to cut to tape without mojo. If I shoot in 24pA I should use a 23.97 timeline and remove advanced pulldown but I cant output to tape. Here are my questions: a)How bad is the quality loss in the 29.97 timeline? b)If i go the 24pa/23.9 timeline route how do I remove the pulldown in Avid? c)Is there anything else I should know?
 
If you shoot 24p Normal (2:3:2:3 pulldown added) and edit in a 29.97 timeline you don't loose *any* quality. If you're removing the pulldown to edit on a 23.97 timeline then a 2:3:3:2 (24pA) pulldown will remove more cleanly than a 2:3:2:3 (24p Normal) pulldown. The quality difference isn't huge, but if you have an NLE that's capable of removing a 2:3:3:2 pulldown, there's almost no reason to ever shoot 24p Normal. Any NLE supporting a 23.97 timeline will allow you to insert a 2:3:2:3 pulldown on output if you need it. Sorry, I can't help with Avid particulars.
 
whats the difference between editing on a 23.97 timeline and a 29.97 timeline, besides the obvious frames per second? is one preferred over the other?
 
23.98 is used IF:
1. Going to film
2. Making a 24fps DVD
3. Plan to do much visual effects work

Visually they should appear the same so if it's not one ofthe above you can just shoot 24p and edit 29.97
 
esmooov, what version of Avid are you using? Xpress Pro HD 5.1.2 can go to tape in a 23.976 project without Mojo. If you're on an older version then the upgrade is only $50. Well worth it.

To answer your second question, any version of Xpress Pro removes pulldown from 24pA footage just by virtue of being in a 23.976 project. Just capture the footage with the capture tool and the pulldown is automatically removed. (Xpress Pro HD can also remove the pulldown from 24pN footage).

Hope that helps.

Chris
 
Ok thanx guys. Great advice. So if I shoot 24pa capture 23.976 it will automatically be alright. I think I will get the upgrade and be all set. Additionally what should my output settings be when cutting to tape?
 
You always cut to tape as 29.97. Avid Xpress Pro HD will add pulldown to "reconvert" the 24p timeline to 24pA footage.

As I mentioned, with Xpress Pro HD you can also remove 24pN pulldown over firewire, so at that point you have to tell Avid which type of pulldown removal to use. That's done in the 24p settings dialog and you can choose Normal or Advanced from the drop down menu. I just didn't want that to trip you up since I'm pretty sure it defaults to Normal. :laugh:

Chris
 
Sorry to hijack the thread but if I shot in 24p Advanced, edited on a 23.97 timeline, and now need to output to mini-dv tape (which will in turn be used to transfer to BetaSP), what should my export options for pulldown be? I use Final Cut Pro HD. I've heard that 2:3:2:3 is the best quality but should I pick 2:3:3:2 since I shot in Advanced?
 
2:3:2:3 gives the smoothest motion on output.. It's the same as film tranfered to video.

2:3:3:2 is only better for input since it allows dropping frames and minimal processor load (and slightly better quality) It's not intended to be the final view. Output in htis mode only if you plan to recapture from that output.
 
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