"24p dvd" clairification

S

Steve Ogden

Well-known member
Hi everyone,

I posted this question over in the Premier section, but wanted your input - and besides, as much as I like Pro 1.5, I'm pretty sure I'll be converting soon.

Just got the new Premier upgrade & really like it, however when trying to make a 24p dvd in Encore, I couldn't find anything but a 29.97 timeline. Afte exporting 23.976 from Premier, Encore would re-transcode upon import to fit the 29.97. So I went to the Adobe user forums and asked 'If Encore would do a 24p dvd?' Here's the response:

Yes, all versions of Encore can make a 24p DVD.

Either import a 24p MPEG-2 file or AVI- Encore will transcode 24p AVI files on import to 29.97 fps with the progressive flag set.

Regards,
Joe Bowden
Adobe Systems
Click to expand...

Guess I'm confused about what a 24p dvd is - sure though it would be 23.976 or 24 fps, but not 29.97.

Which brings me to the question that's driving all of this. I puchased the DVX100a to do a documentary, and shot my first interviews in 24p normal. Later realized that I wanted output the documentary as a 24p dvd (didn't realize there were so many choices when starting the project). So I'm sort of wrestling with: 1) stay with 24p normal for the rest of this project , or 2) deal with the 'de-interlacing' on those first interviews. Considering I've also got a lot of archival footage (seems to have been shot on 16mm) thats already 60i, the first option has it's advantages.

Thanks for your clarifications & comments.

Steve
 
Re: "24p dvd" clairification

Unfortunately, I don't know what mpeg2 rendering options PPro gives you, but in Vegas, you'll need to render a 23.976 timeline as "23.976+2-3 Pulldown". This allows you to render a progressive 24p DVD AFAIK.

I've done some small tests, and the mpeg2 file rendered with the above setting is smaller than when I rendered the same material to 29.97. However, I've only tested with fairly short segments (45 sec), so while the differences in filesizes should remain consistent regardless of project length, I personally have not done enough testing to be conclusive about the issue.
 
Re: "24p dvd" clairification

Thanks for the comments Jive.

Now for the fun question - when 24p normal footage is put on a 23.976 timeline, how does Vegas/Premier handle the 2 'mixed' frames?
 
Re: "24p dvd" clairification

As for Vegas, when you're on a 24P timeline, there are *no* mixed frames. Only the raw 24P frames are present.

Those frames only occur if you render out to a 59.94i timeline, in which case the frames are generated and added to the output using the method you specify: either 2:3 or 2:3:3:2.
 
Re: "24p dvd" clairification

Barry,

I'm wondering about what happens to those frames when you import/capture 24p 'normal' footage to a 24 timeline. Seems they have to be dealt with somehow to get onto that timeline.
 
Re: "24p dvd" clairification

The pulldown is removed and you have a true 24p timeline. Then, it's no different than if you had started with 24pA. You still have 24p.

In Vegas, anyway. Can't vouch for Premiere, though I presume it's the same.
 
Re: "24p dvd" clairification

Why does it matter to shoot in 24PA, then? Wouldn't it be better to shoot 24PN if you can still edit in a 24P timeline...but then also get the advantage of your dailies being as smooth as possible?
 
Re: "24p dvd" clairification

Is there a quality difference with 24p that originated from 'normal' vs. advanced, or is it just extra processing to remove the pulldown?

Having read these discussions for nearly 6 months - I think it's finally starting to sink in.
 
Re: "24p dvd" clairification

Mike, you must have been posting while I wrote my last reply. You asked my question.
 
Re: "24p dvd" clairification

Just to avoid going over ground covered many time before, I direct you to Adam Wilt's very complete breakdown of the DVX and the different 24p modes (link)
 
Re: "24p dvd" clairification

Thanks Jive - I'd read it before months ago & it didn't make sense to me then. I'd watched that ground get covered many times here & didn't understand. Guess I was ready for it now.
 
Re: "24p dvd" clairification

After having done a pretty extensive test shoot this past weekend using the squeeze mode and the Panasonic Anamorphic Lens all shot in 24PA, I'm still confused with the issue of 24P (normal) and 24PA with regard to advantages and disadvantages.

I'm not going to film. I just want the best image possible with the least amount of jutter. I will be going out to DVD. I use FCP, Studio Pro and have a G5. I use both the 100 and 100A.

In FCP I have it set to 23.98 and 2:3:3:2 with removal of frames and have the anamorphic 16:9 checked.

Any help of this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

eric
 
Re: "24p dvd" clairification



Those frames only occur if you render out to a 59.94i timeline, in which case the frames are generated and added to the output using the method you specify: either 2:3 or 2:3:3:2.[/quote]

Hey Barry,

What about when I render from a 24P timeline to an AVI file but I don't choose either "insert" options, just straight to NTSC DV? Does Vegas default to some kind of pulldown insertion?
 
Re: "24p dvd" clairification

If you render a 24P timeline out to NTSC DV, it'll add 2:3 pulldown to it.

You have three options: you can send it out to a "24P NTSC, inserting 2:3:3:2", or "24P NTSC, inserting 2:3", or an NTSC DV .AVI. The difference is, with the first two, the file is still flagged as 24P and can be re-imported and the original frames reconstructed. With the last one (NTSC DV), it makes a 60i file out of it. It is functionally identical to a 24P 3:2 file, but there are no pulldown flags in the file, so if you re-import that file it will come in as 60i (even though it will retain the 24P look).
 
Re: "24p dvd" clairification

How are your experiences combining 24p footage and 60i footage in the same timeline with Premiere Pro 1.5?

Mine are not good at all. Since there is no way to make premiere NOT recognize a 24p file (and consequently not use pulldown) I cannot combine footage and get reasonable results.

L
 
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