24p conversion on PC (PP CS3)

PaPa

PaPa

Major Contributor
I've been browsing around, and besides finding cinema tools for FCP, i have yet to find a way to convert the 30p file to 24p on PC with good results. The only way i have been able to do this is to drag the 30p file into a 24p timeline, which results in an erased frame every 5th frame, or to interpret the file ( in pp cs 3) from 30p to 24p, resulting in slow motioned video, and then time stretching the footage by 80% to bring it back to realtime motion.

Has anyone yet found a solution on PC that can work either as a stand alone program or something integrated in PP cs3?
 
I haven't gone through the process yet, but I'm betting that your best result would be using Aftereffects and a plugin called Reelsmart Twixtor to retime the footage. It has some intelligent motion sensing algorithms that would yield the best results possible. I've used it to move 60i to 24p with pretty good results (still not great, but better than any other method I tried)

-Tom
 
thanks tom. Sounds almost like it's doing what I am doing by taking the 30p, interepreting it as 24p, inserting it as a slow motion clip into the 24p timeline and then speeding the footage up by approximately 120%

What i need right now is some uncompressed 30p video footage with movement and panning in it. I got some from mcgeedigital but the there was only slight movement.

Do you have any quick 10 second footy with some panning?
 
The motion sensing stuff in twixtor is different and superior to a straight speed change in PPro, or even in Aftereffects, but it takes a lot longer to render. http://www.revisionfx.com/products/twixtor/overview/

That said, you'll still get a better speed change quality from Aftereffects than from Ppro.

I don't have any clips for you to test with at the moment.
-Tom
 
twixtor is pretty good, but overkill for simple frame rate conversion. ae cs3 and up come with pixel motion which uses optical flow to do the same thing that twixtor does, for free. the same optical flow technology used in the foundry;s other plugins and compositing apps like nuke, so its no slouch.
i second the motion for someone to upload some footage so i can do a comparison of the two.
 
I think if you use a combo of either AE or Twixtor plus another plug in Reel Smart Motion Blur - you'll be happy. On my last shoot we used the Sony V1U which does some kind of 24p - it's close to perfect but can cause doube frames. What we did was put a 50% motion blur on regular footage and a 66% on heavy motion. It made the shots much smoother.

Only problem with Reel Smart Motion Blur is that like Twixtor it is a render hog. On Average every 1 minute took about an hour to render on my Dual 2GHz 64Bit machine.

The main difference between 30p and 24p besides the actual frames is the shutter (60 vs 48). So if you add more blur it'll simulate the shutter being open longer. I haven't tested this on the Canon yet, but I plan to when I get a hold of the camera hopefully this weekend. What I need to do is borrow my friends DVX and test perfect 24p against the interpolated 24p of the Canon5DMK2. If I get a chance to run the test I'll see if I can post it.
 
Thank you for that!

but it looks like either way i go about importing it, that every 4th frame is deleted making it a bit jumpy. Guess the real test will be interpreting the footage as 24p and then speeding it up in the time line... But man, what a hassle.. Bring us 24p dang nabbit!
 
so i've tried doing both

1) strictly importing the 30p footage into PP CS3 hoping it would magically turn it into smooth 24p. Instead, it's 24p with every 4th frame deleted
2) interpreting the footage as 23.976 ( 23.98 ) importing it into the 24p timeline, and then applying a speed of 125.2% to bring it to the same duration. Rendered, the result is the exact same as bringing in the 30p into a 24p timeline, where every 4th frame is deleted.

Thus, what i need is a static camera on a tripod, with a nice range of slow pans, to fast pans to really see the juttery effects and if im willing to live with it for the time being before, and IF, any 24p firmware update is released for the cam.

Anyone willing to help me find such footage?
 
I've been using Cineform Neoscene.
I can't claim it's the best solution, but it's been working for me at the moment.
If I wanted the absolute best solution, I think that the recommendations for twixtor are probably the way to go. I know that I'll be getting twixtor soon, but till then neoscene's doing alright.
 
just downloaded the trial version of cineform neoscene.

Took the 30p file, converted it to 24p with high quality checked off. Took a minute to render, imported it into my 23.976 timeline and it read correctly at 23.976. but now, instead of every 4th frame being deleted, it gives me a double ghost frame like this:

Are you experiencing this as well? How can i solve this issue?

ghostimage.jpg
 
PaPa said:
Are you experiencing this as well? How can i solve this issue?
Click to expand...

Yes I am experiencing the same thing.
I do not know of a solution to the problem at this time, but I do believe it's been brought to Cineform's attention.
Whether or not they can do anything else about it I don't know. I doubt it.
I'd like to know if the AE process is better, otherwise I'm just going to try Twixtor.
Either way, it's added time and money. I really like the simplicity and efficiency of Neoscene, but when it comes at the cost of lesser quality it really pisses me off. For now, I'm just making due with it.
 
making due with it? You serious? This extra ghost frame is terrible!! lol, hope its not any serious work for the mean time.

Downloaded the trial of twixtor for PP and wow,, this thing is confusing as hell. Not exactly sure about the best way to use this, but so far it looks like its doing what i tried to do in the first place. So i take my 30p footage, import it into my 24p timeline, and instead of speeding up the footage with a right click, i use twixtor? Going to give it a shot and see what happens.
 
heres a quick comparison to the standard pixel motion frame blend in AE and twixtor. There's no doubt twixtor looks a ton better here but if i figured out how to use the timewarp plugin in ae to do the frameblending with all the settings, pixel motion would perform alot better.

pixel motion

pixelmotion.jpg


twixtor with nearest framblending and inverse warping
twixtor.jpg
 
Now i need to figure out how to pull this off in PP CS3.

Basically do i follow the same steps as i described? Do i not have to interpret my 30p footage to 23.976 before placing it in the timeline? Can i simply drag the 30p footage into the 24p timeline and then use the plugging? What exactly is the step by step for this sucker?
 
with ae, you just drag the footage into a 24p timeline and apply the plugin. you dont have to interpret the footage.
i'll download the premiere pro trial and will see if its the same. there are some funky warping artifacts with any of these plugins though, but in motion u barely notice them.
 
PaPa said:
making due with it? You serious? This extra ghost frame is terrible!! lol, hope its not any serious work for the mean time.
Click to expand...
Given the other options, I have no choice at this time. No, it isn't for serious work. I just recently got the 5DmkII with some lenses and I'm just going through the motions right now. 24p is important, but not as important as familiarizing myself to the whole process. That's why the neoscene option was so enticing, it was supposed to just take care of it on the fly, and it turned out to be pretty bad.

PaPa said:
Downloaded the trial of twixtor for PP and wow,, this thing is confusing as hell. Not exactly sure about the best way to use this, but so far it looks like its doing what i tried to do in the first place. So i take my 30p footage, import it into my 24p timeline, and instead of speeding up the footage with a right click, i use twixtor? Going to give it a shot and see what happens.
Click to expand...
I'd like to see the results. I've known about Twixtor possibly being the best solution, but I have yet to test it for myself, nor have I seen any truly conclusive evidence that would convince me it's the best way to go. One thing I am fairly certain of at this point though is that it is better than Neoscene's 24p conversion.
 
PaPa, did you try using NeoScene in the high quality mode checked ON? Have you come across any new ideas?

Also, couldn't you theoretically use any of the programs before that were used to convert to 24p, like Magic Bullet?
 
PaPa, did you try using NeoScene in the high quality mode checked ON? Have you come across any new ideas?
Click to expand...
No matter what, Neoscene will not be able to properly convert 30p to 24p.
I've gotten confirmation that cineform has no plans to implement 30p to 24p.
 
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