24fps or 23.98 for broadcast?

Chris Santucci

Chris Santucci

Veteran
Since we're well clear of tape recording, I'm unsure if I can provide a file meant for broadcast as 24fps or not. I've been using straight 24fps for web, but now I'm wondering if I can skip 23.98fps completely. Any master control bros here?
 
23.98 to be safe.

Rarely does anyone ever provide or expect 24.00 footage, especially on a non-Hollywood level.

Up until 3-4 years ago, barely any cameras offered 24.00.
 
I would think 29.97 but the definition of broadcast may have evolved whereas 10 years ago you heard broadcast and you mostly thought news and sports.
 
That would really depend on the content...there is programming on every major network that's shot at 23.98p or 24p. Some distributors who air more movies than shows like maybe Lifetime or something will probably be heavier on the 24fps.

Netflix says "24FPS" in their guidelines but I don't know if that means 23.98p or 24p, but maybe either would be okay. And it's not a surprise they ask for that as they are mostly interested in movies, or TV shows that look like movies.
 
NorBro said:
That would really depend on the content...there is programming on every major network that's shot at 23.98p or 24p. Some distributors who air more movies than shows like maybe Lifetime or something will probably be heavier on the 24fps.

Netflix says "24FPS" in their guidelines but I don't know if that means 23.98p or 24p, but maybe either would be okay. And it's not a surprise they ask for that as they are mostly interested in movies, or TV shows that look like movies.
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Thanks. I imagine ENG crews shooting news events are shooting at 29.97 or higher.
 
From a quick glance, all of the encoded files on the major news YouTube channels are 30fps so I would think so (besides also simply looking like 30p when watching it or watching news on TV).
 
I feel well qualified to answer this. 23.98.

And 59.94. 29.97 went out the door for broadcast with SD. There is one cable real estate show that I occasionally shoot on that is 29.97 and some internet/social stuff wants 29.97, but the vast, vast majority of network and broadcast acquisition is 59.94 and 23.98.
 
Chris Santucci said:
Since we're well clear of tape recording, I'm unsure if I can provide a file meant for broadcast as 24fps or not. I've been using straight 24fps for web, but now I'm wondering if I can skip 23.98fps completely. Any master control bros here?
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A reasonable number of happy and some miserable hours have been spent in the MCR and on OBs over the years. Albeit it 50Hz countries, UK and Aussie.

Generally I believe 23.97 for 60Hz countries is the accepted TV standard. The reasons why:

https://www.studionetworksolutions.com/video-frame-rate-facts-and-figures/

But if delivering to the SMPTE standard DCP composition standard, i.e. supplying the likes of Netflix, it has to be 24 or a full integer.

"For Interop (IOP) standard DCP compositions, the frame rate must be 24fps.

For SMPTE standard DCP compositions, the frame rate may be 24fps, 25fps or 30fps for 2K or 4K, and may be 48fps, 50fps or 60fps for 2K.

https://partnerhelp.netflixstudios.com/hc/en-us/articles/4417542010387-Digital-Cinema-Package-DCP-Specifications-Requirements

Chris Young
 
So let's say I shoot a commercial in 23.976 FPS for a local U.S. business that want's to run it on local OTA stations (1080 30i ATSC 1.0); I would need to ensure that the colors are in the broadcast legal range, confirm text stays within safe title area, apply a 3:2 pulldown to get it to 29.97 FPS, interlace with upper field first, and render to ProRes, DNxHD, or Cineform.

Does that sound correct?

Do I need color bars, test tone, and countdown?

Or do I just hand-off the 23.976 file and hope the station's Gen Z intern knows/remembers to apply all the conversions?
 
Every place tells you what you need to do, but most will do it themselves (and you just hand the footage over). And even if interns do the work it's going to go through someone else before it airs, or should.
 
And most of Gen Z is DEFINITELY not doing that kind of work, they are as entrepreneur as you'll get and all-in on themselves, on social media, disturbed with the idea of working for someone else.
 
Run&Gun said:
I feel well qualified to answer this. 23.98.

And 59.94. 29.97 went out the door for broadcast with SD. There is one cable real estate show that I occasionally shoot on that is 29.97 and some internet/social stuff wants 29.97, but the vast, vast majority of network and broadcast acquisition is 59.94 and 23.98.
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Isn't most OTA U.S. broadcasting still interlaced, i.e. two 29.97 FPS fields = 59.54 FPS, not 59.54 progressive?
 
Imamacuser said:
Isn't most OTA U.S. broadcasting still interlaced, i.e. two 29.97 FPS fields = 59.54 FPS, not 59.54 progressive?
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OTA(and most cable/satellite) in the US is either 720/59.94p or 1080/59.94i. But acquisition can be almost anything. Just did a three cam shoot Friday that was 2160/23.98p(UHD) for a network that is still 720/59.94. 29.97fps from the ole SD interlaced days had the same motion cadence as 59.94p/59.94i(they just basically renamed it to that when we went HD). 29.97p is not the same and no one broadcasts 29.97p There was a lot of confusion in the early days of HD, when we got progressive formats. They didn't really think about 30(29.97) fps progressive being 30 discrete frames and how it would look vs. 30(29.97) fps interlaced, which was two fields which gave you 60 images per second vs. 30(29.97) fps progressive which only gave you 30 images per second and a much different motion cadence. Remember too, our old SD cams that shot at a fixed 30(29.97) fps interlace, the shutter didn't go any lower than 1/60s.

So, long story short,(kinda semantics and kinda technical) no one is broadcasting at 29.97 fps anymore, and never was in HD(the broadcast signal was either 59.94p or 59.94i).
 
Imamacuser said:
So let's say I shoot a commercial in 23.976 FPS for a local U.S. business that want's to run it on local OTA stations (1080 30i ATSC 1.0); I would need to ensure that the colors are in the broadcast legal range, confirm text stays within safe title area, apply a 3:2 pulldown to get it to 29.97 FPS, interlace with upper field first, and render to ProRes, DNxHD, or Cineform.

Does that sound correct?

Do I need color bars, test tone, and countdown?

Or do I just hand-off the 23.976 file and hope the station's Gen Z intern knows/remembers to apply all the conversions?
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I think these latest TVC guidelines might answer a lot of your questions. One is CNN's, but I guess it must be fairly standard across the US... surely? I don't keep up with the US requirements, as I've only ever supplied TVCs in Australia, where we have a government body that outlines all the operational practices that need to be met for TVC delivery. The CNN one is very similar in its specs as to what we deliver here these days.

Chris Young

https://iabtechlab.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Ad-Format-Guidelines_DV-CTV.pdf

https://commercial.cnn.com/tech-spec/television/
 
NorBro said:
Every place tells you what you need to do, but most will do it themselves (and you just hand the footage over). And even if interns do the work it's going to go through someone else before it airs, or should.
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Yes, that is my experience but sometimes when dealing with an ad agency, they don't know. They don't even know what I mean when I ask for the file export specs, haha. I always always always supply 23.98 unless they ask for 29.97.
 
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