24 p what is it good for?

Barry_Green said:
So why does it have 24p at all? Honestly I don't know. I think the American marketing team must have pushed long and hard for that. I wouldn't be surprised at all if WikiLeaks were to leak some initial design memos that showed that the original concept for the GH2 didn't even have 24p at all, because that seems like the type of thing that the consumer company would do. Fortunately for the aspiring microcinema filmmaker, it did get 24p, and it even got a better 24p mode than it had before.
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They also added live HDMI output and if you go to their website in the literature it says that this is there so filmmakers on pro film sets can monitor their images. No joke. So I think between that and the "24p Cinema" mode and the "Cinema" color option they decided that they wanted to go after the filmmaking market too, and that they wanted to attract people to upgrade from the GH1, especially after the hack.
 
Is that on the American site, or the global site? That's kind of funny... if the American site says that, then yeah, that's probably a direct response to the Canons. If that's on the global site, well, heck...
 
From Global site! Although they don't say filmmakers but they do say professionals...

http://panasonic.net/avc/lumix/systemcamera/gms/gh2/movie.html

"The DMC-GH2 is newly capable of image output via an optional mini HDMI cable to the external monitor, which is suitable for the professional image recording that requires serious confirmation of the images."

Also, under the heading of "Professional Image Recording"

"The DMC-GH2 supports 1080/24p native mode with 24Mbps, the highest in AVCHD format bringing impressive afterimage to the movie. The newly added Cinema Mode option (selectable in the Film Mode) gives the movie rich, cinema-like gradation"
 
You know... this ain't rocket science.

Simply Panasonic sells 24p HDTVs in NTSC countries so GH2 supports 1080p24. They sell 50i HDTVs in PAL countries so GH2 supports 1080i50. Not 1080p50 because GH2 hardware can't support it yet.

Less likely to sell 25p HDTV because doubling 25p frames on 50i or 50p HDTV would give good results.

What does it mean? God bless America :happy:
 
Barry_Green said:
Okay, so here's where you have to understand something -- the GH1 had 25p because that's ALL it had. Not because Panasonic thought "hey, here's this great feature, we can make a filmmaker's camera!" No, it's because at 1080 resolution, it simply couldn't do any faster. We got 24p over here, and you got 25p over there, because that's all it was capable of. When they went to the GH2, it was now capable of the video standard of 50i/60i, so that's what they made. In Panasonic's opinion, it's BETTER now. And if you ask 95% of their target market, they'd tell you that the "smooth" 1080/50i is superior to the "choppy" 1080/25p. And that is who this camera was marketed to.
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Whoa, standard terminology needed! The OP was obviously talking about the 24pN setting (the one with the highest bit rate). That's different to the 24p (25p) you're on about here.

As standard the GH1 only has 60i/50i for 1080 (24p/25p embedded within) and it was only its reinvention by the user base that brought about 24pN / 25pN (and then only when lpowell is wearing blue socks and the tide is out in Madagascar).

And given 24p is "choppy" - what is it good for? :happy:
 
PJF said:
And given 24p is "choppy" - what is it good for? :happy:
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About 90 years of cinema. And it's almost exactly as "choppy" as 25p, which being only one frame per second off, will produce nearly exactly the same amount of "choppiness" as 24p -- if you don't know how to shoot it.
 
David Jimerson said:
About 90 years of cinema. And it's almost exactly as "choppy" as 25p, which being only one frame per second off, will produce nearly exactly the same amount of "choppiness" as 24p -- if you don't know how to shoot it.
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I don't agree. There's more going on than "just one extra frame" and it is visually noticeable on playback. This is very evident when comparing "same panning scene" acquisition on a Canon 5D2 shot at 24p and 25p...clearly visible on the camera's LCD during playback.

Besides, shooting and editing 24p in PAL land for broadcast is simply a PITA. I've got nothing against 24p for those who need it...but leaving 25p off a camera for PAL users is just plain stupid.
 
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Skeptikal said:
I don't agree. There's more going on than "just one extra frame" and it is visually noticeable on playback. This is very evident when comparing "same panning scene" acquisition on a Canon 5D2 shot at 24p and 25p...clearly visible on the camera's LCD during playback..
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now, this I don't get.. there's no noticeable difference
 
Hello.

Hello.

Hi guys been lurking around on this forum for a few weeks, looking at buying a GH2 :D. I have no Cine/Photo background but I do have a PC background and saw a few question I think I can answer.

1st. If you have an Nividia card then you've never seen true 23.976hz. The driver just doesn't support it. I belive you can get it with an ATi card.

2nd. Refresh rates on an LCD differ from a CRT.
Refresh rate or the temporal resolution of an LCD is the number of times per second in which the display draws the data it is being given. Since activated LCD pixels do not flash on/off between frames, LCD monitors exhibit no refresh-induced flicker

3rd. You can't sync with the human eye. Depending on the person state you can see more/less FPS. IE, when you are watching a really close footbal game just 10 seconds on the clock and the guy is running to the endzone your body will start releasing adrenaline as you get more excited and you can actually see faster. If you want to find documented cases you can look up when people are in war sometimes the belive they could see into the future slightly.

Now I think somone asked how you can test it, you can get a media player called mplayer and see all the data of a playing video.

Now other then these, I can't wait to order my GH2 i'm pretty excited. This will be my 1st camera over 80 bucks my whole life. Kinda funny reason I need a new camera is for decent pictures of my new watercooled PC i'm building lol.
 
I don't need 25p, since i'm not in a PAL land.. who cares about 25p in here , If your in a PAL land, don't buy GH2,
Buy 5Dmk2, 60d, etc.. and shoot 25p with peace in your mind...
 
weird.. i cannot PM you either.
anyway, my question regarding you post:
i do have Nvidia card on my PC. so you're saying i won't be able to properly see 23.976 footage??
second, my LCD is pretty old and useless regarding Hrz (only 60).
so now i ask: what do i need to buy (with low budget) for properly seeing my footage and editing as it SHOULD be seen??

thanks (nice gun :) but i'm not really into that (even skipped the army))
 
roei z said:
weird.. i cannot PM you either.
anyway, my question regarding you post:
i do have Nvidia card on my PC. so you're saying i won't be able to properly see 23.976 footage??
second, my LCD is pretty old and useless regarding Hrz (only 60).
so now i ask: what do i need to buy (with low budget) for properly seeing my footage and editing as it SHOULD be seen??

thanks (nice gun :) but i'm not really into that (even skipped the army))
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Well Nvidia cards fluctuate slightly in the 23.8 to 23.9 range. I tried my hardest to see a visual differance between the ATi card and the Nvidia card and I just couldn't see anything. Maybe somone one earth can pick up 100th of a hz differance but I can't. I don't think switch to ATi would be beneficial. You might make up that small hz differance but you will lose cuda abilities and cuda is AMAZING. Now for the monitor I also think people put to much money on the Hz range (For LCDs) LCDs don't flicker like CRTs. If I was looking for a nice crisp monitor I would look more at lag/response time. Samsung makes some really nice LED backlit with low lag for a decent price. Contrast ratio is also a factor. I only really made my post because so many people are all about hz. CRT days hz's were a big deal, LCDs no so much.
For a decent price I think this monitor is pretty good.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=6440573&Sku=S203-2313

If you do alot of image work you might want to go up to a more expensive 2560x1600 res monitor. But then the lag starts to go up and it to large for most video files.
http://www.pcrush.com/product/LCD-F...1600-1000-1-Widescreen-LCD-Monitor?refid=1238
 
Skeptikal said:
I don't agree. There's more going on than "just one extra frame" and it is visually noticeable on playback. This is very evident when comparing "same panning scene" acquisition on a Canon 5D2 shot at 24p and 25p...clearly visible on the camera's LCD during playback.
Click to expand...

That's because your camera LCD has it's own frame rate, likely 60hz. So what you see are the effects of frame-doubling or -skipping. Never rely on the viewfinders to judge flicker. And don't rely on your computer monitor either, not even on an average flat-screen TV. That's where most flicker complains come from. The footage is fine but the playback is flawed. Apart from that there is no way to spot a difference between 24p and 25p.
 
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