200A, or not 200A?

texvanwinkle

Well-known member
My wife and I have a developing multimedia development business, and we're wanting to expand into video production. My primary interest is to scratch a long-ignored itch to produce my own content—features, shorts, docs, videos, etc.—but obviously we'd like to produce for clients as well, i.e. weddings, corporate shoots (we already have a video editing relationship with a local non-profit that's interested in using us for more), etc.

We have no cameras right now. We are utter novices. The plan for some time has been to buy two 100B's, learn them, then trade up as income and experience allow. Two doubts are creeping in about that strategy:

1) With P2 beginning to overtake the market, and the 170 coming out, the DVX's resale value will presumably drop considerably, and switching from tape to P2 will presumably mean learning some aspects of workflow all over again.
2) We want to get at least one camera now because we have an opportunity this summer to spend a lot of time educating ourselves, and we want cameras that will play well with each other. I'm not sure how well 100Bs will mingle with P2s.

We know we'll want to go P2 relatively soon, for both workflow and camera quality reasons, and based on what I've been reading here and elsewhere, it's pretty clear that we'll want the 170 down the road, which would seem to mean if we do just get one camera now, to use in conjunction with the 170 later, it should probably be a P2 as well (I'm thinking 200A). (I realize there will always be new technology and gear coming out, but here we're talking about the difference between tape and solid state, not, say, HVX and HVX200A.)

That's our logic, and our situation. What's the pro judgment? How much of an actual workflow and monetary hit—and education backtrack, by switching from one format to another—would we take by investing in 100Bs now and selling them within a year or so to go P2? Are we better off to just go ahead and go P2 now, learning it and a better camera from the start, or investing in the older but less expensive MiniDV now and letting the price drop on P2 gear for another year? The key is that we want at least one camera now, and are willing to make the investment on P2 cameras if that's the better way to go.

I realize this is rather subject to subjectivity, but any advice is welcome and much appreciated. I look forward to being part of an excellent forum.

Clint
 
Hello Addison,

I think the HVX200 would be a perfect camera to start with since it has the tape deck built in. The tape workflow is relatively easy to learn and that will buy you some time to work up to the P2 work flow.

Best regards,

Andrew Hoffman
 
Hm

Hm

Whoa, not everybody at once.

120+ views and only two—really 1.5—replies. Thanks much to the gentleman who was thoughtful enough to follow the link to our website and call us personally to advise us.
 
200a?

200a?

Clint,

You ask a good but tough question. I teach video production and what I tell my students is that you really want to be sure that you can keep equipment buzy before you drop soem serious change on a camera, tripod, lighting kit, and an audio kit.


That said, if you really believe that this will be an asset for you and you can make money from it -OR- it's something that you want for a hobby and you're OK with spending the money THEN get the 200A. If you end up getting a 170 in a year or whenever, you'll be able to intercut very easily with the 200A since the electronics are similar.

Just remember though that production requires more than a camera. Theres a lighting kit, a very good tripod (~$1,000) possibly a field mixer and whatever mics are appropriate for your type of shooting/productions.

"Low-cost" digital video equipment has democratized the business just like the LaserWriter democratized the publishing industry. If you're sure you want to go this route, jump on in, the waters Great!


Stan Timek
Pollywog Theater
 
Indeed, I've spent a small fortune on gear and yet I never seem to have enough "toys." I mean to say that in a more serious tone. When you decide to do it right, be prepared to invest lots of cash over time. One way and/or another you'll be spending plenty of money on owning gear, renting gear or hiring the right people with the right gear. So yeah, it's not so simple as merely buying a camera, pointing and shooting.
 
Answer: Not 200A

Answer: Not 200A

Stan and DC: Thanks for the input.

I've actually already got a quote from Videotex here in Dallas for the two 100Bs, a boom set-up, lav mics, some Rifa lights (per a friend, I'm going to add a Lowell Pro Kit for a pepper light), and a tripod. We were basically set to buy the package when I read the news about the HVX last week and got to wondering again whether the workflow speed gained and future-proofing of going P2 now wouldn't be worth it in the long run.

But after consulting with the gentleman yesterday, a Lone Star Emmy- and NATOA-winning acquaintance who runs the city of Allen TV station, and our own guts, we're back to the 100B's. The cost involved in getting into the P2 equipment we could manage, but we really don't see the need right now. Based on even our current contact list, once we get up to speed we can almost surely recoup the cost of the 100B's within a year or so, and by then the P2 equipment will likely have come down in price some. And then we'll have four great cameras. I like that plan.

Thanks again for the help.

Clint
 
I've seen used DVX100B prices run the gamut from $1200-$2100 on Ebay this month. Whether you buy the DVX or the HVX, at this stage of the game, my two cents is to buy used.

Everyone has a workflow that suits them best. If you must deliver a quick turn-around tape of the raw footage after a shoot, then shooting to tape may still be viable. If you will be doing 90% of the editing, I can't tell you how much you'll LOVE the P2 workflow (even if you only shoot standard-def).

After going to P2 (over two years ago), I cringe at the thought of sitting through a tape-capture session. With P2 + Raylight (if you work with Windows) you're ready to edit what you just shot a few minutes ago. Near-instant hard-drive backup. No dropouts. Some folks have reservations about (and a small minority have actually had problems with) going tapeless. For me the benefits far outweigh any possible, drawbacks.

You should be able to find the HVX used for around $3900 (without the 16GB Card). You can shoot to tape, if you prefer, for most of your work while enjoying the benefit of native 16:9 CCDs. Until you can justify the cost of purchasing them, you can always rent P2 cards for special jobs.

When the 170 and/or HVX200A comes available, you'll have two P2 HD camcorders, with at least one that handles MiniDV tape.
 
Clint,

Yes and if you want to upgrade you can always sell your DVX100s. About a year ago, i was able to sell a DVX100a for about $1,700 on Ebay. i used the money to upgrade to purchase a HVX200. By the way, there are certainly additional costs by shooting and editing on HD (more storage and faster hard drive) as opposed to NTSC or PAL. I must say yes, anyone will tell you p2 and Firestore footage does save TONS of time in editing in logging (days on a feature). I didn't think i would like it at first. I love it now. And hate editing with tapes these days. But wait anyway if you are concerned bang for your buck. Prices of everything goes down. In another 2 years, you could purchase a used HVX200 for much cheaper and purchase p2 cards at a lower price.
 
I've seen used DVX100B prices run the gamut from $1200-$2100 on Ebay this month. Whether you buy the DVX or the HVX, at this stage of the game, my two cents is to buy used.

Everyone has a workflow that suits them best. If you must deliver a quick turn-around tape of the raw footage after a shoot, then shooting to tape may still be viable. If you will be doing 90% of the editing, I can't tell you how much you'll LOVE the P2 workflow (even if you only shoot standard-def).

After going to P2 (over two years ago), I cringe at the thought of sitting through a tape-capture session. With P2 + Raylight (if you work with Windows) you're ready to edit what you just shot a few minutes ago. Near-instant hard-drive backup. No dropouts. Some folks have reservations about (and a small minority have actually had problems with) going tapeless. For me the benefits far outweigh any possible, drawbacks.

You should be able to find the HVX used for around $3900 (without the 16GB Card). You can shoot to tape, if you prefer, for most of your work while enjoying the benefit of native 16:9 CCDs. Until you can justify the cost of purchasing them, you can always rent P2 cards for special jobs.

When the 170 and/or HVX200A comes available, you'll have two P2 HD camcorders, with at least one that handles MiniDV tape.

I get really antsy buying that level of equipment used. I like warranties for big ticket items. Anybody know of respectable outlets to buy used, that might even offer a warranty? I'd be much more apt to go P2 now if we could get the price down. I'd want to go Firestore rather than P2, based on my admittedly limited understanding of both, but between the camera and the pricey accessories, we're looking at more than double the cost of the 100B's, even used. And again, that's without a warranty. I would rather go P2 now because I'm pathologically efficient and I really like the idea of solid state rather than tape, but I like warranties for this kinda stuff.
 
Update

Update

After telling them that I could get 200s (*not* 200A's) from B&H for $4699 after the Panasonic $400 rebate, a local dealer has now made me an offer I think I can't refuse: They'll sell me the two 200A's for under $9700. It's a package deal; they won't get me this price on the cameras unless I do the whole package, which is for lights, mics, mic accessories, and a boom pole. I originally was going to get the two DVX-100B's, but my logic is that:

1) We're (the business is me and my wife) going to want to go tapeless eventually anyway;
2) We're going to want everything in the package anyway;
3) What I could save buying some of it used I'd lose on the higher price of the 200A's;
4) I don't see the 200A's coming down in price within a couple of years any more than what I'm getting them for here.

What do y'all think?
 
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