2008-2009 NFL Thread

Rick Meyer said:
"Experts" think this will happen in 10 days or so. Thats bunk. This guy (McDaniels) has spun this story the entire time. So, this is what he wanted all along. So, my money is on a finalized trade by the end of today, maybe tomorrow.
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Well, I hate to quote myself to illustrate just how well I know my team. But, I know my team. I knew McDaniels was a little weasel who wasn't gonna stop until he got his way. Well, he got it. Looks like the newest Bronco is Kyle-are you freaking kidding me-Orton. Kill Me please.
 
Yeah, the whole thing sucks. I pretty much hate McDaniels already (but I will readily admit that I think firing Shanahan was one of the biggest mistakes in recent sports history). But what I would have like to see Cutler do was man up and say that he is a Denver Bronco until he hears differently. That would have made him a man in my eyes, and would have gained him more respeect in the locker room. But he chose to play it like a bruised diva. I still hate to see him go because I believe he has the potential to be one of the greats.

I think I'll be rooting for the Jets this year. ...

I am still expecting Shanny to show up as head coach for someone before long.
 
I have NEVER wished the Broncos ill will and don't plan to start doing that now but I have to say that I feel SO betrayed by them that they have SERIOUSLY shaken my loyalty. In all my years of being behind them, buying gear, going to games etc...I don't WANT them to lose but if they do, I will secretly be happy that it is causing McDaniels extreme misery and job insecurity.
 
Rick, first of all, good call on the trade, you said like 4 hours ago that it was going to be a matter of hours not days.

It's reported that the deal is for Orton and 2009 1st round pick and 3rd round pick, 2010 1st round pick. Those two first round picks could rebuild your defense right there. Although I think this years pick will be used to draft a QB. If you look at the deal for the long term, it's pretty one sided for the Broncos.

Also, I'm not seeing the point about bringing up his huge ego? Name a starting Quarterback in this league who isn't cock-sure of himself?
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Sure, Tom Brady. There is a difference between being confident and cocky. Brady doesn't give anything away, never talks shi* about other players, constantly praises opponents and most importantly puts the team before himself.

Let's see how good McDaniel's offense will be without the talent that he had to work with in NE. Remember, Cassel was a product of working within the system of an 18-1 team. McDaniels is too short-sighted to see that.
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Sure you can look to season before that when we had guys like Reche Caldwell on our team, our offense (or recievers for that matter were garbage) and we still made it to the AFC championship game and barely lost to the Colts (just thinking about that game pisses me off)

Keep in mind, all McDaniels has EVER done was be a coordinator. This it. That's no small feat but odds are he will fail in his first Head Coaching stint. Those are just the factual odds. So yeah, I don't take too kindly with him coming in and blowing things up for the sake of blowing things up. Thats why its humorous to me when people talk about Cutler's ego...Cutler? His ego has NOTHING to do with this situation. This whole mess is the brain child of McDaniel's and his arrogance.
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I'm not going to compare Shanahan to McDaniels, Shanahan is a coaching legend. Just give McDaniels time to mold the team he wants, trust me in a couple of years you guys will be winning your division every year.
 
JConnors said:
Sure, Tom Brady. There is a difference between being confident and cocky. Brady doesn't give anything away, never talks shi* about other players, constantly praises opponents and most importantly puts the team before himself.
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Well come on, Tom Brady is special. He might just go down as the best that ever played or top 5. Thing is, he has ALWAYS had Belichick and cheating aside, that dude can coach. Its much easier to not talk smack when you live in a happy winning family. :)

This trade has me so blind mad that I think I am going to go get blind drunk. Whose with me???

JBrennan-
Thing is, I'm not sure Cutler even WAS a diva in all this. Like I have been saying, I think this is ALL propaganda and spin. He asked for a trade and did what players who ask for trades do...they stay away. Cutler is now saying that the team calling him was bullsh*t. He said he never heard from them. So, I don't think he was being a diva. I think he wanted McDaniels to be the one to manup and stop playing the "we can always trade you" game.

If we waste one of those picks on Stafford or Sanchez I am going to hang myself.
 
Well come on, Tom Brady is special. He might just go down as the best that ever played or top 5. Thing is, he has ALWAYS had Belichick and cheating aside, that dude can coach. Its much easier to not talk smack when you live in a happy winning family. :)
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See, this is where I see your team going. A guy like McDaniels gets it, he's been mentored by Belichick for years. Wouldn't your rather championship caliber football than mediocrity year after year?

All I'm saying is give it time, you'll get there.

And yes, it is easy for me to say when you cheer for the best team in the league, but I've been there before, the Pats were horrible for years.
 
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JConnors said:
See, this is where I see your team going. A guy like McDaniels gets it, he's been mentored by Belichick for years. Wouldn't your rather championship caliber football than mediocrity year after year?

All I'm saying is give it time, you'll get there.

And yes, it is easy for me to say when you cheer for the best team in the league, but I've been there before, the Pats were horrible for years.
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JConners, you are being a little biased. You think that because McDaniels comes from the Bill Belichick tree that we will start winning games. That's absurd. How well has his disciples done? NONE of them have fared well.

I'm sorry man but "getting it" is not alienating your best player. Even Bill Belichick treats Brady with some respect. You mean to tell me that the NE coaches treat Brady the same as the 3rd string special teams guy? C'mon....

If McDaniels could handle Randy Moss he should have been able to handle Cutler...who really was a NON-issue the ENTIRE time he was in Denver (this whole thing started because of a McDaniels prompted trade rumor...)....so, believe me, I think McDaniels is going to fall on his face in Denver. He has already alienated half of his fanbase.
 
Rick Meyer said:
JBrennan-
Thing is, I'm not sure Cutler even WAS a diva in all this. Like I have been saying, I think this is ALL propaganda and spin. He asked for a trade and did what players who ask for trades do...they stay away. Cutler is now saying that the team calling him was bullsh*t. He said he never heard from them. So, I don't think he was being a diva. I think he wanted McDaniels to be the one to manup and stop playing the "we can always trade you" game.
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McDaniels started it IMHO, but it was an opportunity for Cutler that he didn't take. I am a big fan of the guy (although I was a bigger fan of Plummer in terms of his heart, and hated to see him go). I know there is no way to know what really happened or what anyone's real motivation was. I put about 80% of it on Josh, 10% on Jake, and the last 10% on Bowlen for allowing this to happen in the first place. Nobody is blameless.

As for the rest, I believe that you have to give people opportunities. But you have to balance that with everything else. When you choose to cut loose a coaching legend for a guy that has never been a head coach before, you should consciously keep in place that which has already been proven to work. In the case of the Broncos that was the offense. True, Cutler has a losing record. But we all know that is a story of a pitiful defense more than anything. Fix the broken stuff. There's plenty to choose from.

McDaniels may become a Landry, a Halas or a Shanahan. Or he may be a Wade Phillips. We don't know yet. What we do know is that Cutler is a Pro-Bowl Quarterback that is about as dangerous to defenses as any guy on the field.
 
Ultimately, here's the deal...The Bears just got a monster great deal, already. The Broncos MAY have gotten a good deal. We don't know yet. But, we do know the Bears just got a super talented guy. That mystery (of not knowing who we might draft) alone is enough to think the trade was unbalanced.
 
I'm sorry man but "getting it" is not alienating your best player. Even Bill Belichick treats Brady with some respect. You mean to tell me that the NE coaches treat Brady the same as the 3rd string special teams guy? C'mon....
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Belichick treats his players with respect but to think he doesn't set a certain standard on Brady just isn't the case, there are numerous times I've read from Brady about Belichick tearing into him and Moss for that matter. Sure Brady is the franchise player but he's also the hardest worker on the team and when you've got a player that constantly works his ass off then sure your going to treat him differently then say a rookie or a new FA coming in.

There was a great story I read from Moss about when he first came to NE for training camp and how Belichick sat the entire team down but look squarly at Moss and said (Paraphrasing here) "There is one way we do things around hear. My way. If you dont like that or don't listen to it, then you won't be here for very long". Afterwords the veterans, like Brady, Vrabel and Bruschi were all over Moss telling him that Belichick was out to get him, but just messing around with him. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that absolutely he treats every player the same way. If there not working hard enough and that goes for anyone (Brady, Moss, Welker, Bruschi, Seymour) he definetly going to let them know.

Ultimately, here's the deal...The Bears just got a monster great deal, already. The Broncos MAY have gotten a good deal. We don't know yet. But, we do know the Bears just got a super talented guy. That mystery (of not knowing who we might draft) alone is enough to think the trade was unbalanced.
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Absolutely, your not going to know how well this deal is until you see what those draft picks end up being. Where was Chicago picking this year? It must be pretty high.

And I'll agree that I'm probably a little bit biased and I'll also agree that the it could have been handled better, again both ways. I just can't stand the "how dare they try and trade me attitude". Espcially from a player with two mediocre seasons.

And another thing that should be mentioned here is how this rumour even got out in the first place, the media has played a large part in this, similar to the Favre situation last year. I think you mentioned that a few pages back.
 
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JConnors said:
I just can't stand the "how dare they try and trade me attitude". Espcially from a player with two mediocre seasons.
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Head coaching is SO much more than X's and O's. Its about being a people person, knowing how to get through to your guys, motivating them, getting their respect, but giving it in return. Selling them on you and your philosophies to be successful. Josh considered NONE of this with respect to how he handled this mess.

To toss 25 TDs, throw for a franchise record setting 4500 yards in only his second full season and earning a trip to the pro-bowl mediocre? He is only going to get better. There is a reason the QB'less teams were clammoring to get him. He is the real deal. From what I read, he works just has hard in the offseason as Brady. He was never a character-issue. And you can still expect the most of your guys but still treat them with respect. Thats what McDaniels apparently fails to realize. Face it, he just didn't want Jay on the team from Day 1 and he got his way. Otherwise, he and the Broncos would have tried harder to keep him around. Why else would a team throw away a franchise QB who cost 1.085mil against the salary cap for a back-up quarterback and a couple of really expensive and questionable first round picks?

Jay never had the "how dare you trade me" attitude. He was hurt at first as every single player is when they are brought up in trade talks. That's normal. He just didn't like the way McDaniels handled himself afterwards. Let's face it, McDaniels is trying too hard. He's trying to be Bill Belichick. And Cutler lost respect. He just wanted a promise that he was their QB. Considering Jay's monster talent it wasn't so much to ask for Josh to swallow a little pride and say "Jay, you are my guy and I'm not going to trade you". But, he couldn't do that. All of this could have been avoided with a little pride swallowing and now Josh McDaniels is going to get a rude awakening of how hard it is to win with a journeymen QB or worse, a QB controversy/carousel . People keep saying "what has Jay done? what has Jay done?". He has done a LOT more as a starting QB than Josh has done as a head coach.

And keep this in mind, 6 weeks ago, Jay was beloved by the Denver fans. Now, with the trade controversy, mismanangement by the three stooges (Josh/Xanders/Bowlen), the media spin, bruised egos, BIG egos...Cutler is now in Chicago, and the Broncos are left with NO QB and completely divided fans. Tell me Josh is a good people person. I will puke a little in my mouth.

Zim....your Bears just got a VERY good deal. The Bears have a great Defense. The least we could have done was get a Defensive starter in the trade. It was a terrible trade for the Broncos.
 
Rick, I think were just going to have to agree to disagree. Which is all good.

Here are Cutler's 2008 number -

COM ATT TD INT SACK YDS
384 616 25 18 11 4526

Compared to Orton -

COM ATT TD INT SACK YDS
272 465 18 12 27 2972

Orton put up 18 TD's with terrible recievers and a god awful O-line. It will be interesting to see what Cutler can do with what Orton had and what Orton can do with Royal and Marshall.
 
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Cutler will have a good season in Chicago because they have more of a focus on defense. He won't have to score 30-35 points a game to win every week.

Orton will have a tougher time in the win column both because of the environment and because I am still not convinced that the Broncos have solved the bigger issues of special teams and a consistently effective secondart and defensive line.

THe real tell will be the O-lines on both teams for this comparison, you are spot on with that. It has long been a strong point for the Broncos. But Cutler is also very good on the run, so the deficiency in Chicago in that area may not be a stretch for him.

We'll see. This doesn't sting as much as losing Shanahan, and I am starting to work through it. Guinness has helped :beer:
 
Well, its not like Orton isn't without talent. I just don't know if he'll ever be more than a journeyman. He kind of reminds me of Phil Simms. If by some chance he winds up being a smart, effective player who doesn't make bonehead mistakes, I won't want to hang myself.

I really hope Denver gets 2 immediate impact players on Defense in the first round. We really, REALLY need it.

Jim Brennan said:
We'll see. This doesn't sting as much as losing Shanahan, and I am starting to work through it. Guinness has helped :beer:
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I hear that. I just HAD to hit up happy hour last night.
 
If by some chance he winds up being a smart, effective player who doesn't make bonehead mistakes, I won't want to hang myself.
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LOL.

I've got a feeling that they will both have similar seasons, and if the do then you guys robbed Chicago in the deal.

Orton is only a year older than Cutler too.

And yeah, I'd be spending those draft picks on defense, no question about it.
 
Well, Simms does have a Super Bowl ring. And he got it playing against Elway and the Broncos if I remember correctly.

It has become apparent that is more of the measure of success in the NFL than anything else.
 
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