2008-2009 NFL Thread

[Rick Meyer]

Scuttlebutt is that Shanny may even end up going to the Raiders. RAIDERS?!!!!!!

What the heck?

That couldn't and wouldn't happen. Al Davis still owes him money and Mike hates him. But Mike is a very vindictive guy. He will WANT to coach for a team that gets a shot at his former team twice a year...aka...the Chiefs or the Chargers.

 

[JConnors]

Going to be an interesting off season and draft. I wouldn't halfway be surprised to see Mangini standing next to Bowlin tomorrow at 11am at the press conference.

You guys do not want Mangini. He's a good coordinator but bad HC (ei the Jets past 2 seasons) the only good season he had with the Jets was when he left the Pats stole a bunch of plays, player personel and poached a bunch of our players. He's a rat, you don't want him anywhere near your team.

If I were a Raider fan I would agree.

If I were a Raider fan I'd shoot myself.

 

[ugafan]

If I were a Raider fan I would agree. But yeah, no way Davis and Shanahan work together again. It would be a sign of the Apocalypse.

last year the patriots went 16-0 during the regular season.
the falcons went 4-12.
one year later the falcons are in the playoffs and the patriots aren't.
the end is near.

 

[Rick Meyer]

You guys do not want Mangini. He's a good coordinator but bad HC (ei the Jets past 2 seasons) the only good season he had with the Jets was when he left the Pats stole a bunch of plays, player personel and poached a bunch of our players. He's a rat, you don't want him anywhere near your team.

Not only that but he was only a coordinator for one lousy year. How he scored a head coaching job is beyond me. He is simply not experienced enough.

 

[JConnors]

He is simply not experienced enough.

And he burned a lot of bridges too. There were a lot of pissed of coaches and owners last year after Mangini ratted on the Pats with the whole spygate garbage.

last year the patriots went 16-0 during the regular season.
the falcons went 4-12.
one year later the falcons are in the playoffs and the patriots aren't.
the end is near.

For the record the Pats did go 11-5 and had better record than 8-8 Charger team (who for some reason get to host a playoff game against a 12-4 team....just saying).

But yeah, Falcons had a great season, I suppose you could thank the Pats for bringing up Tom Dimitroff under Scott Pioli for the past couple of years.

 

[Jim Brennan]

Free Agency list just posted:

LINK

 

[Rick Meyer]

I know this is not the DENVER BRONCOS thread...but I gotta vent.

We are a flippin' MESS. I knew losing Shanny was going to be hard enough. Yet to replace him with an arrogant, cocky little milk-mustache' wearing kid...it was bound to tank the team.

This whole Cutler for Cassel fiasco is a NIGHTMARE. You just don't trade Franchise QB's. You DON'T even consider it. Yet this punk thinks if he could teach Cassel his system that he could do it with ANYBODY. What a naive fool. Cutler is ticked and rightfully so. McDaniels has NOT one professional Head Coaching game under his belt. We have NO idea what he is or is not capable of week in and week out. He might be great or he might wind up being Rich Kotite. We just don't know. Therefore, as a fan, you can't help but think his arrogance is blowing up the ONLY thing that worked last year which was our Offense. You don't toy with a number 2 offense especially run by a 3rd year QB who has not only made the pro bowl already but who is only going to get better.

And now that neither side is talking, I'm afraid that a trade is imminent. Which would be dumb. Some are blaming Cutler for being a baby. Please. If you heard that your boss was trying to fire you and replace you with someone else who had less credentials, less time at your company, just because of nepotism you'd be rightfully peeved too. Sure, Cutler doesn't want to talk to him over the phone. Why would he? A phone call isn't going to build trust. This would be the time for McDaniels to man up, fly to wherever Cutler is, take him to dinner, and woo him back. If he doesn't and he doesn't trade Cutler, how effective could Cutler possibly be when he is thinking that his coach is an untrustworthy liar?

This would be the time for the young coach to go to Cutler buy him a beer and a dinner and kiss and make up NOT the other way around. He screwed up big time and now because he can't seem to get past his arrogance to make a REAL effort to make up (I'm not talking a lousy phone call) we end up reading rumors like THIS. Which, may wind up not being a rumor at all. You just don't deal your Franchise QB. EVER EVER EVER.


sigh.

 

[JConnors]

Rick, I gotta disagree.

Cutler has done nothing but whine since McDaniels was named the head coach. From McDaniels perspective, how do you think he feels about a guy thats gone on the record saying he want this player retained and this coach and isn't happy about having a new head coach. The coach is in charge, if the player isn't going to listen to him or do things the way the coach wants then they should have no business on the team. And what makes matters worse is that training camp hasn't even started yet, the season just ended a month or so ago, just picture what it's like when McDaniels starts changing the offense around, Cutler is going to love that, McDaniels may be trying to stop a problem that he see occuring in the future with Cutler.

And no, in my opinion Cutler is the one that needs to grow up. McDaniels is in charge, not Cutler and him caving to him and apologizing or what not, just looks bad on McDaniels part and will definetly not earn him the respect of the other players. It will make him look soft and potentially lose control of the team even before he gets a chance to take control.

Has Cutler even won a playoff game yet? (Not that I'm comparing him to Cassel)

 

[Rick Meyer]

Here’s the thing…Papers love to write that Cutler is whiny. They gobble it up and spit it out there and then it becomes a perceived truth. The kid speaks his mind. The writers twist that, many of them name calling saying he does nothing but cry etc…why? Because name calling sells papers. They say he pouts. REALLY? Because the camera catches his occasional game day demeanor when he is sitting on the bench looking up at the scoreboard when we are losing? That isn’t pouting. That is a QB being a QB. I’ve seen Manning and Brady sitting alone on a Bench many times during a loss with a frowny face and they have never been called a pouter. Why? Because they have won the Super Bowl. You win the Super Bowl and you take the venomous ink right out of the sportswriters pen. Eli was considered the most inconsistent semi-big name QB in the league who probably wouldn’t start on most teams. Until he won the Super Bowl. The sportswriters stopped with the attacks. Only last season midway through the writers wanted Reid and McNabb fired. They make it all the way to the Championship game despite that and now…they’ve eaten their words and have let them be. For now.

My point is, Cutler is not whiny. He was never whiny. The dude is a Franchise QB who is more valuable to this team than a coach who has never ever coached a single game (entire Elway-Reeves analogy here). Granted, we need them both to be on the same page but until this Cutler-Cassel fiasco was brought up, as a fan, I had no reason to believe that they weren’t going to get along fine. Cutler complained about Shanahan being fired. That’s a no-brainer. All star QB’s complain when their beloved coach gets fired or teammates get traded. It’s not like Cutler made any demands. He simply said he hopes Bates would stay. Again, another no brainer. Consider the Cassel-McDaniels relationship it should be no surprise how strongly Cutler felt Bates helped him to become a pro-bowl QB.

Cutler never complained about the new coach. Went on record at the pro bowl as saying that he understood why Shanahan was fired and that he was looking forward to the next chapter and playing in McDaniel’s offense. That doesn’t sound like someone who was going to be kicking and screaming all the way to the line of scrimmage. Cutler never said anything that alluded to the fact that he wasn’t going to listen to him or do things his way. He only expressed being upset over losing Shanahan. McDaniel’s should understand this.

I think everyone knows who is in charge. It’s McDaniels. But, when you are a new head coach coming into a team that has some chemistry (at least on one side of the ball) it is your responsibility to earn their trust and try to continue with what little success they have had. As a head coach you want your guys to like playing for you. You have to win them over. You cannot say to Cutler “you are my guy. See you during OTAs in March!” then go behind his back and try to get a trade. Not without some major fallout. It was a rookie coaching mistake. That is NOT how you treat a franchise QB. Hell, it’s not how you treat the fans.


McDaniels holding out an olive branch would not be “caving”. It would be repairing the damage he’s done. It’s the right thing to do. Cutler deserves at least that much respect. McDaniels is too arrogant and naïve to understand what a Cutler trade would do to his career. If he trades Cutler the next QB would have to get Denver to the Super Bowl to make up for it. Because, even if we got to the Championship game and lost the sportswriters (who have too much power imo) and the fans would publicly speculate “huh. I wonder how Cutler would have done?” If McKid trades Cutler he had better hope we get to the playoffs or he will be gone in 2 years. If he makes nice with the QB…they might just win some serious post season games.

Bowlen needs to step in and say “you boys stop fighting!” I want you both to kiss and make up. Now!

 

[Jim Brennan]

There are plenty of things wrong with the Broncos to work on: special teams, secondary, a consistent running back...

Cutler is not one of those problems. Fix what's broken, leave what works.

I don't get why this was EVER an option. I believe Cutler will be in the HOF some day. He was finally becoming a leader, maturing and getting the team to rally around him. He is becoming the type of QB that dynasties can be built around. I think Pat Bowlen is losing all perspective.

 

[JConnors]

Didn't McDaniels deny that the was trying to trade Cutler?

Wouldn't the GM and owner also be aware of this?

I wouldn't just blame McDaniels

Seems like Cutler and espcially his agent over reacted.

Cutler on his arm vs. John Elway’s: “I have a stronger arm than John, hands down. I’ll bet on it against anybody’s in the league. Brett Favre’s got a cannon. But on game days, there’s nobody in the league who’s going to throw it harder than I am at all.”

That's pretty arrogant if you ask me. Even comparing himself to a legend of Elway's caliber not to mention going on about him having a better arm than everyone in the league. C'mon. He reminds me of Philip Rivers, who is a bit of a dick if you ask me (I'm sure you Broncos fans agree).

In other news TO got released today by the Cowboys. I'm wondering if there are any teams that will be interested in bringing him in.

What did you guys think of the Cassel/Vrabel trade for the 34th pick?

 

[Rick Meyer]

Well, Bowlen has a history of just going with it and letting his coach, coach. So, even though I get the feeling he would like Cutler to stick around I don't think he would stand in the way of a McDaniels trade idea. Which would be foolish. It was Shanahan's personnel moves that got him canned but hand the keys of the sports car over to McGreen? :huh: Plus, he did deny the trade. Or, the real word for it is LIE. That's the beef I have with it. You can't do that. You can't come into a team and try to earn respect by lying. They just aren't going to play for you.

As for Cutler vs. Elways arm comment it was arrogant. But, I give him a pass for a few good reasons. 1) His arm IS very strong. 2) He is a quarterback. What QB isn't so confident it borders on arrogance; especially if you call them on it?....which brings me to 3) He was baited with that stupid question by a jackal-like pack of sports writers who knew that if anyone was going to try and answer what they honestly thought, it'd be Jay Cutler. I respect his forthrightness. Sports writers (like most branches of reporters) don't report the news anymore. They want to MAKE the news. Maybe he shouldn't have answered the question that way. But they shouldn't have asked such a dumb and provoking question. 4) It was more ignorance than arrogance. I know from watching Elway for all those years that his arm was MUCH more of a bullet than Culter's. Its as if Cutler never watched the tapes. But, Cutler has a better touch pass though.

 

[JConnors]

Culter demands trade....

I know we disagree on this, but man, Culter is acting like small child.

C'mon it's proffesional sports, players get traded or thier names are in trade talks.

Cutler is good, but he's not great IMO.

 

[Jim Brennan]

Yep, he's acting like child. I totally understand him being pissed after being told he was the guy, then hearing trade talks. But it was an opportunity for him to step up and be a man. He missed the snap.

 

[JConnors]

Man, Donte Stallworth is ****ed. Serves him right, what a dumbass. Why don't these idiots hire a driver if their going out drinking.

Same thing with Plexico Burress, what a tool, carrying a loaded weapon around, he deserved to get shot in the leg. I love how his reason why it went off is because he had to much money and bling on, what a loser.

 

[Rick Meyer]

Same thing with Plexico Burress, what a tool, carrying a loaded weapon around, he deserved to get shot in the leg. I love how his reason why it went off is because he had to much money and bling on, what a loser.

He's an idiot. Seriously. What is with these high profile athletes and hip hop stars carrying around loaded weapons? Because its cool? Dumbass.

As for Cutler...he is getting traded. I knew this was going to happen. I still don't understand how any of this can be his fault? He said that they (the Broncos) haven't been calling him. Plus, he said he'd be at the mini-camp on the 17th. So, this looks like propoganda and spin on McDaniels part...the least they could have done was wait until the 17th for when Cutler went to camp. But they didn't. Tells me they didn't want him to. McDaniels wanted this to explode from day 1. He never wanted Cutler and this is going to destroy the Broncos for years to come. As a fan since the Red Miller era, this has been the most devestating offseason in Broncos history. First Shanny, now this. This kid is going to destroy the Broncos and will be fired in 1-2 years. We'll have no QB and a new coaching search.

What this fool doesn't realize is that Bowlen might be in his corner now but next year his entire first season will be studded with "what ifs?". "If Cutler was the QB, would we have won that game?" If the new guy, whomever that is, struggles, he is toast.

 

[JConnors]

After a little more thought on the matter, I'll agree with you that it could have been handled better, but that goes for all parties.

Now I guess the big questions is where does he go and for what? You should get a big return for him.

What about sending him to KC for Cassel and say their 3rd overall pick? (I doubt KC would do that though)

 

[Rick Meyer]

After a little more thought on the matter, I'll agree with you that it could have been handled better, but that goes for all parties.

Now I guess the big questions is where does he go and for what? You should get a big return for him.

What about sending him to KC for Cassel and say their 3rd overall pick? (I doubt KC would do that though)

I don't think we would EVER trade him to the AFC (maybe Browns or Jets because we rarely play them), much less a division rival. McDaniels may be an arrogant punk but I don't think he's stupid. If he did that, and if God forbid we lost to them twice next year, he might be out of a job before the season even ends.

Make no mistake, Jay Cutler IS that good. So, its a shame that they don't just say "lets tear up your contract and make a promise to you". Thats ALL they have to do. What they are going to be paying out in extra draft picks and new trade contracts is going to be staggaring anyway. So, to wind up WITHOUT him has to be one of the dumbest moves EVER. For ANY team.

He SHOULD be worth a Kings Random but no one, NO ONE will give the Broncos what he is worth. Trust me. We will probably wind up with another first round pick this year and a 3rd. Maybe, just maybe another journeyman level or unproven QB. I think a Franchise QB...a Favre, Elway, Marino, Montana etc is worth the kitchen sink and Cutler has the potential and talent to be one of those guys. So, we SHOULD get some defensive starters and so on. But we won't. Thats why this is so disturbing.

Early on, rumors were that we were planning on trading Jay AND our 3rd round pick for Quinn and Rogers. Why we would be tossing in a 3rd rounder is beyond me. I think McDaniels has been trying to trade Jay all along to be honest. He's too smug and I think he thinks hes that good of a coach where this won't affect the team. So, since we've announced that he is on the blocks, Jay will probably be traded within hours, if not a couple of days. I'm sure this has been brewing for sometime. No way in heck we announce that he is on the blocks and we miraculously trade Jay within 48-72 hours without a several week effort.

"Experts" think this will happen in 10 days or so. Thats bunk. This guy (McDaniels) has spun this story the entire time. So, this is what he wanted all along. So, my money is on a finalized trade by the end of today, maybe tomorrow.

Rumors are that Washington is trying to throw Campbell into the mix. I also heard Cutler to Washington, Campbell to KC, Cassel to Denver. Kill me.

 

[JConnors]

See here is where I have a problem with the argument that McDaniels is an arrogant punk and what he's done has disrespected Cutler. Who is Jay Cutler? He put together one decent season, he has a losing record, a terrible attitude and apparently a huge ego. That should send up flags right there if I were a Bronco fan.

As I said, sure maybe management could have handled it better, but players names come up in trade talks all the time, the fact that Culter comes out with the "Who are you to trade me?" attitude to his new boss, reeks of arrogance and McDaniels coming from a Bill Belichick coaching background wouldn't (and shouldn't) put up with that.

Now, McDaniels comes from a coaching background where he has learned to demand that players constantly improve and get better, if your just going to through the motions than we don't want you. Cutler IMO has that attitude.

And here is something that has been overlooked, Josh McDaniels has coached the best player in the league for the past 4 years (and arguably the best QB to ever play the game) and he's worked with him side by side all this time. You'd think coming from the best coached team in the league and working with the best player and offense (running it) would give him some much deserved credit. Not this "You don't know what your doing" reaction. This 'kid' ran an offense that blew everyone out of the water two years ago and barely missed out on a perfect season and ran an offense without Tom Brady and had a QB that hadn't started a game since High School step in and the offense was still great. I think he knows what he's doing. Wouldn't you want your team to resemble something like that? If he sees something in Cutler that's not going to help the team than so be it.

Jay Cutler will not win a superbowl in his career, his career will resemble someone like Matt Hasselbeck's.

And one last point. McDaniels ran the offense last year that scored 47 points (If I recall) against you guys and embarresed the Broncos on a Monday Night.

Again, this is just my opinion and I'm not trying to be malicious about this. (well maybe the 47 points part )

J

 

[Rick Meyer]

As far as I'm concerned this is a friendly debate. So, its all good.

See here is where I have a problem with the argument that McDaniels is an arrogant punk and what he's done has disrespected Cutler. Who is Jay Cutler? He put together one decent season, he has a losing record, a terrible attitude and apparently a huge ego. That should send up flags right there if I were a Bronco fan.

This is where we are going to have to agree to disagree. You can't
dismiss Jay's enormous potential and massive talent because he 'only had one good season'. He did this with the last or near last ranked Defense and ZERO running backs (7 were injured, 5 out for the season I believe...unheard of...). In only his second full year of starting in the NFL, he amassed 4500 yards and went to the pro-bowl. Considering all of the QB flops nowadays, this is no small feat. Many predicted he would be good and he is on the precipice of being great. He knows this as do his fans. You say he won't win the Super Bowl? Not even Dan Marino won a Super Bowl so I'm not going to play that guessing game. I will say that if he never wins the Super Bowl it won't because of his lack of talent. He has the "stuff" to take any team there. All you need to do is watch him play a few times. There is a reason why the NFL network is ALL over this story. Because its unprecedented. Name one QB on the cusp of his prime in the modern era being traded by the new rookie coach for no apparent reason? It's a HUGE blunder and the fans are going to pay for it.

Also, I'm not seeing the point about bringing up his huge ego? Name a starting Quarterback in this league who isn't cock-sure of himself? Why should Cutler get any extra repremand for it? Hell, look at Elway...he refused to play for the Colts. People even called him a baby. He then went to Bowlen and said "It's either him (Reeves) or me" and Bowlen picked Elway. Why? Because a franchise QB is NOT the same as everyone else. I'm not saying they are bigger than the team. But they are VASTLY more important than any other position and a rookie coach should have recognized that and showed him SOME respect. He never did that. McDaniels wanted "his guy" or rather "not Shanahan's guy" and it is HIS massive ego that brought the Broncos to this point, not Cutler's. Cutler is under contract. If they didn't want to trade him they could have just kept things as is. Believe me, McDaniels wanted to trade him. Period.

Now, McDaniels comes from a coaching background where he has learned to demand that players constantly improve and get better, if your just going to through the motions than we don't want you. Cutler IMO has that attitude.

I'm sorry man but you can't compare Josh McDaniels to Mike Shanahan. Not for another 10 years can you even begin to claim that Josh McDaniels has a better eye for talent than Mike Shanahan. On the offensive side of the ball, the NFL only has a handful of true geniuses and he is one of them. I know that you didn't bring Mike's name into this but we are talking about Josh McDaniels 'eye' for talent vs. what he inherited. His Offensive record speaks for itself. He may not have gotten the Defense going but time after time after time his Offense was at or near the top of the heap. He knows talent and before he left he suggested "please don't tinker with that Offense". Thats what this is all about. McDaniels taking the "well oh yeah, I will show you old man" approach. There is nothing wrong with Denver's talent positons. They could have played in McDaniels spread offense just fine. I just wish Bowlen would have whispered in his ear "I'm not signing off on a Cutler trade...ever.....just so you know...." Let's see how good McDaniel's offense will be without the talent that he had to work with in NE. Remember, Cassel was a product of working within the system of an 18-1 team. McDaniels is too short-sighted to see that.

Keep in mind, all McDaniels has EVER done was be a coordinator. This it. That's no small feat but odds are he will fail in his first Head Coaching stint. Those are just the factual odds. So yeah, I don't take too kindly with him coming in and blowing things up for the sake of blowing things up. Thats why its humorous to me when people talk about Cutler's ego...Cutler? His ego has NOTHING to do with this situation. This whole mess is the brain child of McDaniel's and his arrogance.

Jay Cutler will not win a superbowl in his career, his career will resemble someone like Matt Hasselbeck's.

Personally, I think that its so hard to even GET to the Super Bowl that I won't even debate this statement. Most QB's would be LUCKY to have Matt Hasselbeck's career. And Cutler has the talent to have a much, MUCH better career.