2 Weird Problems

I

inkoso

Member
So i'm very new to my DVX100a, i just recieved it 2 days ago.
I reset everything on the camera to Default using the Manual posted.
But today i noticed two very strange things.

1. Even when my Gain is set on L (0db) i am still getting a lot of noise/grain
examples from today:
colors002.jpg

grain2001.jpg

^his pants are extremely grainy
grain001.jpg

^black shirt is extremely grainy.
I have no clue why this is, the gain was set on L all the time. It would be great if someone could help.

2. This one is really weird and i have asked a few people and no one has any ideas as too why this is happening.
If i record something, then turn the camera off (too watch the tape on my capture camera or just turn it off when done using), when i pick up the camera again and turn it on, the next thing i record seems to overlap the last thing i recorded by about 5 seconds or so. Which is absolutley horrible for skateboarding, a great trick was filmed over because of this problem today.
Now you might think "oh you must not have fast forwarded after watching" welli tested it out, and fast forwarded past any footage, to where it was blue, just after the last clip. Then recorded, and sure enough the last clip was taped over. Does anyone know what might be happening here?

btw: heres footage from today if your curious to see how some of it came out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6-bZRt-o-k
idk why the audio wasnt included.
 
I don't know about the grain, but the recording over last clip sounds like a timecode issue. Someone else on here can tell you how to do that properly, but in the mean time, if you really can't be bothered with time code, I would fast foward a good 15-20 seconds after the last trick to give it enough leway.
 
Do NOT take the tape out, and watch the trick.

That'll just screw up the timecode, and give you a hectic capture session when in the editing stage.

I know it may be tough, since this is skateboarding, but if don't feel the trick was good enough, just get him to do it again.

Robbie
 
Robbie Comeau said:
Do NOT take the tape out, and watch the trick.

That'll just screw up the timecode, and give you a hectic capture session when in the editing stage.

I know it may be tough, since this is skateboarding, but if don't feel the trick was good enough, just get him to do it again.

Robbie
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thats really really weird, because i did this with my vx2100 all the time. Every trick we would do this and it wouldnt have a problem like this, it never messed the timecode up. I feel like theres a setting thats wrong or something, i dont know but its stressful
 
The grain will be there most of the time..especially when your not using lights..Some of the camera settings add noise to your video..you should experiment!i use these settings on most of my shoots..
DETAIL LEVEL -2
V DETAIL LEVEL -2
DETAIL CORING +2
CHROMA LEVEL +2
CHROMA PHASE 0
COLOR TEMP 0
MASTER PED -8
A. IRIS LEVEL -1
GAMMA cine
KNEE HIGH
MATRIX CINELIKE
SKIN TONE DTL OFF
V DETAIL FREQ THIN
PROGRESSIVE 24p
im assuming the DVX100a and b are same when it comes to settings
 
why exactly is there so much difference between the vx2100 and the DVX100a. Like what makes there be so much gain NORMALLY for a DVX100a clip, and none on a VX2100 clip. Why is there gain on these shots, what is the beneficial part to having the noise?
 
It may be a timeline issue. Not totally sure, but the comb-like artifacts look like you shot in 24p or 30p and then brought the footage onto an interlaced timeline. If you set the timeline to progressive instead of interlaced it may solve it for you. Someone can either back me up or tell me if I'm wrong.
 
When I first go my DVX, right out of the box I wasn't happy with the image either and felt it was too noisy. Well 15 months down the track I learnt what scene files do, and you must understand these in detail in order to achieve a clean image. Also a computer LCD screen will enhance any noise in the video signal as well. Do a test and run live out of the DVX into a CRT TV and you'll be amazed how nice it looks.

Now, with the tape problem, as Robbie said DON'T TAKE OUT THE TAPE! it screws up the time code. Don't compare the VX2100 and the way that worked.
If you must take out the tape or rewind in camera, after you're done there is a "blank search" feature on the DVX which will correctly find the end of where you finished off last and it shouldn't record over tape which has footage there.

Sometimes on set after I've done a take on a music clip, the producer/director will ask to see a certain point in the song,, I rewind back and we watch it, I then use the END SEARCH function and have never had a problem.
 
JayR said:
It may be a timeline issue. Not totally sure, but the comb-like artifacts look like you shot in 24p or 30p and then brought the footage onto an interlaced timeline. If you set the timeline to progressive instead of interlaced it may solve it for you. Someone can either back me up or tell me if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

this is very true..And take shauns advice too because he makes a good point..Everyone who first gets th dvx has the same question and after discovering the scene file settings they're happy just take your time..Practice!And also get the dvx book by barry green..Its the dvx bible..Do a search on this site ul find it
 
inkoso said:
why exactly is there so much difference between the vx2100 and the DVX100a. Like what makes there be so much gain NORMALLY for a DVX100a clip, and none on a VX2100 clip. Why is there gain on these shots, what is the beneficial part to having the noise?
Click to expand...

The is a difference between GAIN and GRAIN (or noise). GAIN can cause GRAIN, but there can also be GRAIN, even when no GAIN used.

If your DVX has default settigns, then L GAIN is 0db or NO GAIN. However, the DVX100A model is very noisy, the noisiest of the all the models. After a while, you will get used to the look. A lot of people find it is more filmic (though that may not be what you're going for). Alittle grain actually enhances the human perception of detail, so your images may look sharper/more detailed as a result of the grain.

Please post your full scene settings. Some GAMMA modes show more grain than others. Generally you can decrease your DETAIL and V.DETAIL settings, increase your CORING setting, make sure your MASTER PED. is -6 or lower, and avoid CINELIKE_D or HIGH GAMMA, and that will reduce the appearance of grain. Also, messign around with COLOR TEMP, increasing CHROMA LEVEL, or using CINE MATRIX can also increase grain, so avoid if that's your goal.

As always, white balance and expose properly for best images.
 
JayR said:
It may be a timeline issue. Not totally sure, but the comb-like artifacts look like you shot in 24p or 30p and then brought the footage onto an interlaced timeline. If you set the timeline to progressive instead of interlaced it may solve it for you. Someone can either back me up or tell me if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...
no i shot this in 60i, i just took screen grabs from Sony vegas and they always have those weird interlaced lines.

i guess since theres like 3 settings on the VX21 and way way more on the DVX100a im not used to having to worry about setting it right so that theres minimal grain.

To Shaun

isnt it bad for the heads to rewind and do the blank search things? thats kind of the rule of thumb is to never play back on the camera?
also, this is what i did. I rewinded, watched the footage, MADE SURE to fast forward to the end of the clip, then recorded and it went back a few seconds. Isnt that the exact same thing as the blank search? or is it different because i used my cap cam?
 
The END SEARCH on the DVX positions the tape to start recording on the next blank frame. It's not a random guess, it is the exact next frame. That way when you start recording there is no break in time code (your NLE will thank you) and you don't have to worry about recording over any previous shots. If you're going to END SEARCH do it in the DVX, not your capture cam.

I normally feel guilty for capturing off the DVX (yeah, I know...) but I really don't think the few seconds of tape shuttling is going to wreck your heads or tape drive. Just my non-expert opinion.
 
is the end search just REC CHECK button near the zoom rocker?
Also, i think i fixed the reason why i was getting so much grain
was because i had EVFDTL on. Would that make any difference, when its on it seems to have a lot more grain
 
Right button, wrong mode. In camera mode the button turns on the EVFDTL (for help in focusing, and like joshua said only affects what's on the EVF) and in VCR mode does the END SEARCH. The REC CHECK button just rewinds a little bit and plays it back to assure you that everything is functioning properly. It is a feature that I never use because if you do, you will need to do another END SEARCH to properly set yourself up for further recording.

As for the "grain" problems, have you tried viewing your footage on a CRT monitor yet? I wouldn't base picture quality off of a computer monitor. The footage from my DVX looks subpar on my HD monitors at home, yet looks superb on a tube display. Footage from our GL2's at work makes me gag when displayed on my work LCD monitor but looks fine when broadcast and watched on a CRT. Even when we're shooting in terrible lighting with about 12dB of gain it looks acceptable on TV. Computer monitor...different story.
 
I agree Ric, computer monitors are a pain to work with and look terrible. Unless you can afford a calibrated studio monitor, your standard LCD isn't a true representation of whats going on.
 
shaun1970 said:
I agree Ric, computer monitors are a pain to work with and look terrible. Unless you can afford a calibrated studio monitor, your standard LCD isn't a true representation of whats going on.
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then how come so many shorts, and montages with a DVX100a dont have as much grain as i do, not even close.
And the grain isnt even just in the Blacks, its the whole entire picture, no matter what color or shadow
 
inkoso said:
then how come so many shorts, and montages with a DVX100a dont have as much grain as i do, not even close.
And the grain isnt even just in the Blacks, its the whole entire picture, no matter what color or shadow
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The stills you posted looked fine. The footage you posted looks fine. Define grainy.

You still haven't posted your scene settings, either. Please post them.
 
i am pretty sure the ONLY things i tweeked was color temp, which was at like -4 or -5 and Master Ped at -6.
 
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