2 Big Sur videos 2 Raw capable cameras :)

Ted Ramasola

Ted Ramasola

Veteran
This one on the Black Magic Cinema Camera



This one on the 5DmkIII + ML Raw (pre-alpha may 22 build)


I'll avoid making my personal comments and opinions as I have my own needs.-and so do you.;) I just wanted to share this as they have some sort of the same treatment for the same subject.

Lets not judge who did a better video since those are creative and thus subjective choices, I'm just amazed how BOTH cameras are capable tools.
One is a new camera the other is running on hacked firmware and doing what its not supposed to be doing. ;)
 
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The 5D is really reborn here.... thanks for sharing, you did a good job, and thank you for not going over board with the grading. Getting tired of seeing people testing how far they can push saturation and contrast.
 
legrevedotcom said:
The 5D is really reborn here.... thanks for sharing, you did a good job, and thank you for not going over board with the grading. Getting tired of seeing people testing how far they can push saturation and contrast.
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legrevedotcom,

I just shared this videos, I did not do any of them. The film makers would appreciate it if you leave a good note in their Vimeo accounts.
 
Thanks for the comparo! Both videos looked great.

Regarding workflow- once the initial processing is done with ACR+AE (fast on my 12-core box; ~6FPS), 8 or 10 bit files can be processed moving forward and the original raw and DNG files can be deleted. Still more work, however the quality is so much better than compressed footage in most current cameras that it's worth the effort. I shoot with the 5D3 and FS700 + Speed Booster. For shots that don't require audio, the 5D3 raw workflow is worth it for the extra color fidelity (FS700 appears to be higher res. vs. 5D3 raw (though they look very close after the 5D3 raw has been sharpened with ACR). It appears the FS700 will get the new 422 XAVC codec this month (though probably only 8-bit, but with SLog2); will be interesting to see how it looks compared to 5D3 raw. The FS700 will also get raw 4K with the firmware and hardware upgrade; looking forward to seeing the output of the Convergent Design devices.
 
Hi guys, I was one of the two filmmakers who made this video.

Thanks for not being too harsh on us (unlike your sister site BMCuser.com). We really didn't make it to be compared to "Meet Me In Big Sur" but are flattered that you did. Unlike the BMCC video we shot this while camping with minimal gear. We had the 5D, a single CF card, a monopod, and four lenses (The Zeiss 25, 50, 85, and a Takumar 28). The only ND we had fit the small Takamar so most of the mid-day shots we either used that or stopped down heavily on the Zeisses (f13+) and sometimes bumped the shutter to 125--creating an "over sharpened" feel. I use my Zeiss lenses with my C100 so I never thought to invest in ND filters for them. This video was really just a test for us (and the camera) as it was our first time trying out the Magic Lantern Hack. The edit includes shots that may not be super pleasing because this is NOT just a compilation of only the best shots or only the magic hour perfect lighting shots.
 
Plaid Zebra said:
Hi guys, I was one of the two filmmakers who made this video.

Thanks for not being too harsh on us (unlike your sister site BMCuser.com). We really didn't make it to be compared to "Meet Me In Big Sur" but are flattered that you did. ......The edit includes shots that may not be super pleasing because this is NOT just a compilation of only the best shots or only the magic hour perfect lighting shots.
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Thank you for coming in DVXuser and sharing with us your technical notes. Yeah, I saw how nasty it got over there at MCuser thats why I carefully worded my post here and over there at DVinfo and avoided hyperbolic thread titles and words.
Readers would immediately rip you if you start a thread with "xcam V.S Ycam" or "awesome cam-x footage kills cam-y!!!" :)


Seeing it's your first post, WELCOME TO DVXUSER!
 
we're much nicer over here. Sorry you got mixed in with a flame war comparison post. I do have to ask though. In your workflow, did you not disable post sharpening in your conversion from DNG? Anyhow, welcome to DVXuser.
 
Amazing how well the ML stuff is progressing. The BMCC Big Sur vid made me want one. 5d3 raw has made me pause to see how it progresses over the next couple months. I'm not canceling my BM pocket cam order just yet, but given BM's delivery issues this could be well sorted before any mortals ever get their orders filled. I shoot short takes for low rent commercials, wide shots always make me cringe a bit, though non-gearheads never notice. I'm going to shoot some Florida beach stuff over the summer, having the latitude to tame the highlights in post is a welcome addition.
 
Thanks, I've been a DVX reader/lurker for a while now but never felt compelled to post. I've learned a lot on here as I am still fairly new to filmmaking (been doing it on and off for about 2 years now) and there is SO MUCH to learn.

As far as the post-sharpening, my brother handled most of that as I was busy with other projects. I know Lightroom auto-sharpens to 25 on import but I usually turn it off. I'll check with him if he did. What I did find was it was easy to mishandle the RAW files. You have to switch the format so many times (RAW to DNG to Tiff to PRORES) and sometimes a setting here or there would be off and the whole clip would go haywire.
 
5D raw looks pretty good but cannot compare to the BMCC footage. I just did a blind test with My Wife and she said the BMCC looks a lot better, almost like high quality pictures......

Great try, but BMCC is on another level here in the right hands.
 
J.F.R. said:
5D raw looks pretty good but cannot compare to the BMCC footage. I just did a blind test with My Wife and she said the BMCC looks a lot better, almost like high quality pictures......

Great try, but BMCC is on another level here in the right hands.
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Any camera in the right hands will do.
Give the BMC to an average video guy and the MK3 to say Robert Richardson and the MK3 will kill the BMC. Reverse the cameras and the BMC will win. Give Robert Richardson the MK3 and Janusz Kaminski the BMC and we could then have a constructive conversation. WHy not throw Gordon Willis in there with an iPhone.

SO JFR, why can't the 5Draw compare? Because you've seen a handful of videos on the web? Plus the 5Draw hack has been out what, a month? How about less than that. Most people started testing with the May 17th or 19th build.

I'll bet that in time and when the ML team releases a refined build that both cameras will have their strengths and weaknesses. That's the nature of cameras. I'll say it again, I had the BMC and just couldn't deal with the moire, which is a big problem. The camera couldn't talk to a majority of my EOS glass (I had the EF version and basically still the only version available). I sold it before the flange mount FAILURE was discovered and couldn't even focus to 30ft on my wide solution optic (which is SLIM pickings). There was and IS lot's of things about the camera that are just plain not well thought out on the camera. BUT IT SHOOTS RAWWWWW and PRORES! That alone does not make a better camera. I got great images out of the BMC and I got totally unusable footage out of it. I've seen great footage shot from the BMC and I've seen horrible footage shot from it. Just as we see from all cameras.

Why not just celebrate that there is a BMC and an awesome stills camera that now shoots RAW moving images? Each camera will record great looking footage and poor looking footage. It comes down to what they are pointed at after all.
 
dustylense said:
Any camera in the right hands will do.
Give the BMC to an average video guy and the MK3 to say Robert Richardson and the MK3 will kill the BMC. Reverse the cameras and the BMC will win. Give Robert Richardson the MK3 and Janusz Kaminski the BMC and we could then have a constructive conversation. WHy not throw Gordon Willis in there with an iPhone.

SO JFR, why can't the 5Draw compare? Because you've seen a handful of videos on the web? Plus the 5Draw hack has been out what, a month? How about less than that. Most people started testing with the May 17th or 19th build.

I'll bet that in time and when the ML team releases a refined build that both cameras will have their strengths and weaknesses. That's the nature of cameras. I'll say it again, I had the BMC and just couldn't deal with the moire, which is a big problem. The camera couldn't talk to a majority of my EOS glass (I had the EF version and basically still the only version available). I sold it before the flange mount FAILURE was discovered and couldn't even focus to 30ft on my wide solution optic (which is SLIM pickings). There was and IS lot's of things about the camera that are just plain not well thought out on the camera. BUT IT SHOOTS RAWWWWW and PRORES! That alone does not make a better camera. I got great images out of the BMC and I got totally unusable footage out of it. I've seen great footage shot from the BMC and I've seen horrible footage shot from it. Just as we see from all cameras.

Why not just celebrate that there is a BMC and an awesome stills camera that now shoots RAW moving images? Each camera will record great looking footage and poor looking footage. It comes down to what they are pointed at after all.
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Honestly, you're doing a whole lot of talking for nothing......


I am not married to any camera and only state facts. Based off of these two clips the BMCC is sharper and resolves more detail, the images honestly look very close to still pictures. The 5D footage is many shots is not exposed properly and noisy, also very soft. BMCC has such wide land views and everything looks very defined.

No matter what is done with a 5D it will simply not match the BMCC, different sensors which at the end of the day equal a different look. Just like 5D will be able to achieve low light and dof simply not possible with a BMCC as well.
Now my opinion is I like the BMCC image more, it's great to be able to shoot with everything in focus again and for it to look cinematic.

peace
 
PlaidZebra, how much data did you end up producing on that shoot? Logistics with raw and 1 card sounds pretty tough. Nice looking footage.
 
I'm excited about both of these cameras. I'm excited at the thought of RAW becoming ubiquitous, as 24p and HD did before it. I'm excited about SD and compact flash cards and SSDs with the requisite data rates and storage for our needs becoming commonplace and cheap.

I'm excited for the day, soon to come, when choosing a camera will be as arbitrary as choosing a light; Mole Richardson, or Arri, or Lowell? Who cares. A 1k is a 1k
 
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J.F.R. said:
Honestly, you're doing a whole lot of talking for nothing......


I am not married to any camera and only state facts. Based off of these two clips the BMCC is sharper and resolves more detail, the images honestly look very close to still pictures. The 5D footage is many shots is not exposed properly and noisy, also very soft. BMCC has such wide land views and everything looks very defined.

No matter what is done with a 5D it will simply not match the BMCC, different sensors which at the end of the day equal a different look. Just like 5D will be able to achieve low light and dof simply not possible with a BMCC as well.
Now my opinion is I like the BMCC image more, it's great to be able to shoot with everything in focus again and for it to look cinematic.

peace
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JFR, do you even have a BMC? If not, have you ever shot with the BMC?
 
J Michael said:
PlaidZebra, how much data did you end up producing on that shoot? Logistics with raw and 1 card sounds pretty tough. Nice looking footage.
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1) We nearly filled our CF card with about 110/128 gigs filled.

2) You copy those RAW files in DNGs at 2.9mb per frame essentially doubling the data.

3) Then you triple/quadruple it when you turn it into Tiff Files at about 9-15mb per frame. (Later we tried JPEGs since the color correction was already done and they were about 2-3 mb per frame)

4) Then you turn it in to ProRes which creates another copy of every Tiff.

When I look at how much the folder is containing now (including everything in every form) it is just over 1.3 terabytes. Now that is is done, I will delete everything but the RAWs...
 
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