2.0 / HDV mini-review

yagfxg33k

Well-known member
A friend of mine recently upgraded his 1.5.1 version to 2.0 and offered to let me try it out on his system. So, I loaded up a little 5 minute montage project from 1.5.1 onto my Firewire drive and headed over to his place.

The first thing I attempted to do was to just open the 1.5.1 project in 2.0. This worked fine but 2.0 seemed very sluggish. So I started a new project with the obligatory HDV settings and imported the project. This seemed to work a bit better. Unfortunately, all of the conform and preview files were no longer any good because they changed the format so I had to re-render the short.

After re-rendering the short, the previews were viewable but VERY choppy. Just to confirm that this was not an issue with his machine I loaded the old project into 1.5.1 on his machine and sure enough, it was as smooth as silk.

Now, 2.0 claims native HDV editing and they have built their own custom system for doing this. 1.5.1 used the CineForm codec to accomplish this. So, based on that, I thought that maybe it was just having a hard time with the 1.5.1 media files so we decided to re-capture the footage from the camera using 2.0.

Here we ran into our first lovely glitch. 2.0 does not support auto-scene detect. 1.5.1 performs this admirably. 2.0 flat out will not do it. And, I confirmed this with Adobe. They suggested I buy Cineform Aspect HD to do this... I suggested they fix their software...

So with that in mind, I went into the original project and exported a batch capture list from the clips in that project. Using that, I was able to batch capture the footage off of the camera again. Once this was done and the project was re-rendered, I looked at the footage in preview mode. It was MUCH better. But it still had choppy areas in it.

I closed the project, re-booted and opened the project again and got the same results. Additionally, the project load time in 2.0 was more then double that of 1.5.1.

Now, 2.0 has some nice new features - Clip notes that let you create a PDF file that you send to a client. They review it and stop it when they want to type a comment. Then they ouput a little text file that 2.0 imports and then creates markers in the footage with their comments for you. The only downside to this is that you can only create these for a sequence or the entire project. I would prefer to be able to select a set of clips and use those rather then create a sequence just for review purposes.

There is also multi-camera support but I don't care about that. They did add the ability to control the ease in/out curves for keyframes which is one thing I really like (Lightwave has all kinds of curve control for this kind of thing).

The bottom line: Just say no to version X.0. Until they resolve these issues I will be sticking with 1.5.1.
 
Actually I'll have to disagree with you there. I don't even have a powerful computer (2.4 Ghz, 1.5 BG RAM, Radeon 9500) and HDV editing on PP2.0 is surprisingly smooth. It does takes a while to conform the file but this wasn't a crippling issue for me.

For the clips notes I'm not sure what issue you were talking about there because I've always been able to just change the work area bar around a certain clip that I want and render just that for preview.

The thing that really separates PP2.0 and 1.5 for me is the formidable amount of color correction tools (Curve, Levels, 3 way color correction etc.) that's been included. TPP2.0 still doesn't offer as much CC control as AE but if I want to just do a quick color correction then it's quite useful.

There's one more small improvement that I really liked: if I want to create a title then I no longer have to manually save it on my hard drive. I'm sure that PP2.0 is storing those somewhere but it's very nice not to have those title files cluttering up my directory.

Version 2.0 for me was a really good step forward for the Premiere series. I'm sure that Cineform HD codecs can offer better HD performance but as of right now I can't really justify the $500 price tag. PP2.0 was more about improving the tools that previous versions offer, and in this it does an admirable job.
 
As long as they can't support auto-clip detection, it's a no go for me. As to clipnotes, the options were sequence or project. So I am not sure what you are referring to there. Can you elaborate a bit? I do CC in AE7 using 3rd party tools so the PP tools are not of consequence for me.

Did you try to use an old 1.5.1 HDV project inside 2.0? How well did that work for you?
 
I dont' have PP2 here in front of me. But are you *sure* it doens't have clip detection? Is that just a HDV thing. BEcause I can swear I've used auto clip detect (and was impressed that it could do it on the fly without having to re-cue each clip) with DV stuff.

- Mikko
 
Last edited:
yagfxg33k said:
As to clipnotes, the options were sequence or project. So I am not sure what you are referring to there. Can you elaborate a bit?

Did you try to use an old 1.5.1 HDV project inside 2.0? How well did that work for you?

In the render option of the clip note you can choose either to render the entire sequence or simply what's underneath the work area bar. So if I only want a certain section of my sequence then I just move the work area bar over that portion and PP2 will only render that.

I never actually used 1.5.1 because I've only recently move on to the HD realm with 2.0 so I can't really tell you how they compare. But you're probaly right that the Cineform codec of 1.5.1 will cause problem with 2.0. However I can't imagine that 1.5.1 would offer noticeably better HD editing perfomance than 2.0 on the same system. It's always been an issue of hardware rather than software for me.
 
Mikko, PP2.0 will NOT scene detect on HDV. On DV it works fine. In fact, one of the work arounds is to downconvert the HD to DV and do scene detect, export a batch list and then re-capture with HDV using the batch list.

The machine that we used was a 3.6 ghz dual core with 4GB of ram and a high speed raid array. We confirmed that the hardware was not impacting the application. Thanks for the clarification on clip notes. I will check that out. That will make it a lot more usefull.
 
One issue that you are coming up against is native HDV editing in PPro2 versus non-native in 1.5.1.

As you mentioned 1.5.1 uses a version of the AspectHD codec to create a digital intermediate that is used to edit with. If you had Aspect HD4 installed then opening a 1.5.1 project it 2.0 works great [The Ciineform software is not included with 2.0]

Editing HDV natively requires a significantly faster computer, the one you described should be work fine. It doesn't require a fast raid since its only transfering the data at 25Mb's per stream. However, depending on the kind of video transitions and fx used it can take a considerable time rendering.

Non-native HDV or creatring a digital intermediate requires much faster access to the data so a RAID can improve performance significantly. Cineform for example converts the 25 Mb HDV data into a wavelet compresed 100Mb HD stream [comparable to the 100Mb DVCProHD codec] if you have adequate I/O the CPU is able to focus on NLE related tasks rather than trying to calculate the I frames. I find this workflow much faster and smoother than the native HDV workflow.

There's plenty of debate regarding this issue on this and other websites for you to explore.
 
Back
Top