16x9 mode - DVX100

first off i didnt say that it displays a semi full frame image, it fills the entire frame of the widscreen tv


Boom.
 
Barry_Green said:
DVX100 (original) doesn't have "squeeze mode"; DVX100A and DVX100B do.

LETTERBOX is actually 4:3 video, with black bars to make it have the appearance of a widescreen movie.

SQUEEZE mode is actually 16:9 anamorphic video (created using a digital stretch in-camera, but the point is that squeeze mode will display properly on a widescreen television, whereas letterbox wouldn't.)
Barry,

Are you saying 16:9 is useless in the original DVX100? What does it look like?
 
oh i assumed that it wouldnt because my tv will play 4:3 inside of the widescreen tv frame. so your tv will blow it up and crop out the black bars for you?
 
tghis is true

but i dont play things through my camera, i export them to dvd as 4x3, pop the dvd into my dvd player, and it plays properly on any of my widescreens, i also have the option of exporting it as a 16x9 if i want, and i think everyone else does too. (without distorting the aspect ratio, just telling it the scale )
 
I guess this is what I am wondering. Can I produce my feature at 16:9 and have it viewed properly on DVD players on TV as well as on computers?

Chris
 
PaPa said:
dave not to be an ass, but thats probably the lamest excuse for not shooting letterbox, there are plent yand plenty of ways to get around that which i hopefully dont haev to go into cause im sure you can think of them too.

The point is, at BEST, you create useless space in your picture, and at worst, you're causing problems for yourself -- especially if you blow your framing.

Don't waste the pixels -- shoot 4:3 and crop.
 
volcano said:
\What do you have to say about scaling the footage to %133.33 for the sake of anamorphic???

You have to do that whether you shoot letterboxed or not if you want anamorphic widescreen.
 
David Jimerson said:
You have to do that whether you shoot letterboxed or not if you want anamorphic widescreen.
David,

That seems inefficient and a way of wasting a good shot as much of the frame will not be there in the final version. If I cannot get the Letterbox feature to work correctly I may opt for the anamorphic adapter.

Chris
 
imageonepictures said:
That seems inefficient and a way of wasting a good shot as much of the frame will not be there in the final version.

It's reality. You're losing the top and bottom of your shot either way. At least if you shoot full-frame and crop later, you have the option of reframing the shot in post. You won't have that option if you shoot letterbox.


If I cannot get the Letterbox feature to work correctly

What's "correctly"? It works by making the pixels on the top and bottom of the frame black and recording the image that way. If you want an anamorphic picture using letterbox, you have to crop the black bars out -- and if you do, see my comment above.



I may opt for the anamorphic adapter.

That is the only way to get full 720x480 16:9 footage out of any version of the DVX without an uprez.
 
David Jimerson said:
It's reality. You're losing the top and bottom of your shot either way. At least if you shoot full-frame and crop later, you have the option of reframing the shot in post. You won't have that option if you shoot letterbox.




What's "correctly"? It works by making the pixels on the top and bottom of the frame black and recording the image that way. If you want an anamorphic picture using letterbox, you have to crop the black bars out -- and if you do, see my comment above.





That is the only way to get full 720x480 16:9 footage out of any version of the DVX without an uprez.

But dude, i dont thnk your getting what im saying.

Watch any behind the scenes DVD, or even if you've been on set ( only a few times ) If you see the production monitors the directors and DOP's use, the picture is 4x3, or sometimes 16x9 with a huge 2.35:1 area box in it.

They are doing the same thing, they view the entire frame, crop out an area for a 2.35:1 area and print that to a larger film stock even bigger than whats used for 4x3 area.

Now, i understand that were still filming 4x3 and cropping it to resemble 2.35:1 or other leaving the actual frame much smaller than a full sized picture at the same ratio should be. But your not throwing any footage awya as much as you may think.

You frame it on your monitors for the area and frame everything you shoot according to that, and EVEN if you misframed one of hte sequences, it can easily be corrected by adjusting the verticle up or down, so in a sense you have even more freedom.

Now imaging doing all those steps, having tiny 4x3 footage looked to 2.35:1 scale and uprezzed it ( with hopefully some technology that is capable of doing such work at DECENT quality.

But anyways, thats just how i see it in effictiveness.
 
PaPa, what is it that you think I'm saying? You basically just agreed with me.

A film frame is 4:3, as you say. But the equivalent of shooting in letterbox mode if you were shooting film is putting a matte over the lens so that the only part of the frame exposed is the widescreen part, and the rest of the frame (top and bottom) is left black.

No one shoots film that way.
 
volcano said:
Hi AJS473,
Here are the sample frames from my FCP canvas. Footage below originally shot in
4x3 ratio.Final product is to be 16x9. Stil undecided if I should use anamorphic or 4x3 letterboxed timeline...
Pic2 Footage is on 4x3 timeline with 16x9 widescreen mask added...
View attachment 620
Pic 4 Footage blown to 133.33 scale on the anam. 16x9 timeline...
View attachment 621
Pic 4 what you did recommend on your last post. Do you notice the detoriation at the footage on Pic4 comparing to Pic2. It is especially visible on widescreen. I guess if you see the pic4 on a 4x3 tv it will be same quality with Pic2, because it will be squeezed back into what it was, masked by blackbars. Am I right?
So the point is; if you want anamorphic and trying to do it with regular 4x3, you'll sacrifice a bit of quality for widescreen tv, but for 4x3 it is all same...


i just did a quick little test

shot footage in 4x3, opened it into a 16x9 project and enlarged it to 134.33 ( not 133.33 as there was a thin thin black line on hte left of the frame and on top.)

then i hsot the same footage in squeeze mode and imported that into a 16x9 timeline,

here are two full res comparisons.

here is the 4x3 enlarged to 134.3 %

frame439dy.png



and here is the 16x9 squeeze shot.

frame1696et.png


sorry bout weird aspect ratio, they were both exported in a 16x9 project but somehow the .bmp was off ratio wise.
 
Last edited:
Looks awesome!

Looks awesome!

Hey,

Both DVX grabs look great. So are you saying with my DVX100 (no "A") I should just shoot 4:3 and stretch to a 16:9 sequence in Final Cut Express?

Will this look alright?

Will it play right when burned to DVD or played back on TV producing black bars as if it were true 16:9?

This is what I am really wanting to know.

Chris
 
Hi PaPa,
Thanks for the test shot...
In 4x3 shot, vertical lines seem be distorted (as if you used a wide angle lens) Something i never observed before when i do the similar enlarging my 4x3 onto an anamorphic timeline, any comment on that?
Also, were the exposures same in both shots?
 
yes, the settings were the same for both shots. only difference is one is squeeze and the other was letterbox.

i dont have a grab of this but i tried taking the 4x3 letterbox shot and put it through my trial version of redgiants instantHD and i compared the squeeze to that, one thing i noticed is it does not really make things look high deff, but it can enlarge your video to almos any size while KEEping all the quality of the original, which is still really good.
 
volcano said:
Hi Barry, tx for the detailed explanation. My concern is though, are you sure to call the letterbox a 4:3 video? (with etc...) People might think they have an option of removing the black bars after they shot it in letterbox mode. Isnt technically any frame that has a 1.78:1 ratio called 16:9?
Thanks

No, it's 4:3 video. The video signal is 4:3. Part of it has been forced to black, but the video signal is a full 720x480 4:3 frame, and will display on a 4:3 TV. If you try to display "letterbox" video on a 16:9 TV it'll just be all stretched out and everyone will look wide and fat, and there'll still be black bars visible.
 
It's a shame Panasonic is making people jump threw hoops like this for decent 16x9. So much trouble for a digital "cinema" camera.

Blu-Ray and HD DVD players are new and have their problems and HIGH price tag$. It will be some time before this changes. There is still life left in SD.

PANASONIC, PLEASE RELEASE A 16x9 DVX.
 
Well, they pretty much did with the HVX. The price without the P2 cards (only about $2K more) makes me surprised the DVX is still selling well.
 
To squeeze or not to squeeze!

To squeeze or not to squeeze!

Hello Fellow VideoFREAKS!:Drogar-Evil(DBG):

There is a lot of talk about to squeeze or not to squeeze. The main conclusions I've been reading is not to squeeze in camera, do that in post (you'll still lose some quality, but not as bad), or go with the XL2 or HVX200. I've done some serious price hunting & the diference between the DVX & HVX is close to $3,000!

I want to go with the DVX100b, but the post production solution to convert 4:3 video to 16:9 seems like a VERY CPU intensive & a tedious avenue to travel.

My question is how bad does it look if you take squeezed in camera video & transfer it to film or watch it on a HDTV? I mean is this debate worth merit? Maybe if you're going to shoot space type sci-fi movies, or slick Hollywood wanna be action flicks it might be, but what about the indie folks, or documentary makers? Is the quality that bad?

Any direction is much appreciated, I'll be ordering a camera next week & the XL2 is a BEAST, the HVX is VERY expensive. The DVX100b is perfect, except for this 16:9 issue.

Have a nice 4th of July, don't blow off any body parts or video equipment! :)
 
Yeah, if you want 16x9 at a reasonable price, Panasonic ain't your company. There were recently three threads asking why there wasn't a 16x9 DVX, Jan ignored it all. Buy a competitors product, that's what I'm going to do. Your in IL, maybe you can go someplace to see the gear before you buy. I've been to SMS Productions. The Canon XL2 is coming down in price, it's got a cleaner image with more resolution anyway. I'm thinking of a Sony FX1E (PAL), it's cheaper than a DVX and it's HD (16x9 of course). You can shoot either 50i and spend your life de-interlacing or shoot Cineframe 25, and you'll at least equal DVX resolution. None of us will have the DVX color or gamma, but if Panasonic won't let the DVX keep up, forget them and move on.
 
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