16 mm camera

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avr

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I always have been a video guy but I love the film cameras and i am thinking to purchase a 16 mm. camera. I like the Arri, Bolex ...

i would like to shoot a shor film in 16 mm. but I don´t know if is more expensive this. Someone knows the cost of the film+transfer to a digital tape (DV-Dvcam)?
what camera is a good choice (medium cost... Arri, Bolex..?

I´m missing with this but I´m sure that in this forum there are a lot of people that can learn me and to avoid mistakes.
Thanks a lot
 
Are you looking for syncsound cameras?, quiet cameras? Powered cameras? winding cameras?

You can check out normal rates of film and transfer(just remmber 50ft of film at 24fps, is about 2 1/2 min) www.a1filmlab.com

Get back to me on what type of camera, or what type of short you plan n making, and I'll make some suggestions

-Matt-
 
I own and used an arri 16BL on 2 shorts...
it is a loud ass camera...
but problems can be avoided with carefull planning and some leather (over the camera).

it shoots only 24fps... no variable as some film cameras have
also it is not an exact 24fps... since the motor isn't cystal synced (runs around $800 bucks for that motor to get exact 24fps)
but usually the sound drifts off a bit and I just correct it in post...

I'm right now editing one of the shorts shot with it, but it wont be available to see for a while... if your in no rush check out www.bokserfilms.com in a few months and you can see some images from it.

its a big camera and not easy to hand hold (like 22 lbs.), but for a $3k 16mm camera its worth the trouble.

I found mine on ebay... and I would recommend it...
but it needs servicing to keep it in tip top shape.

as far as costs for film and development

get a student id card... go to kodak and buy film for like 20% off (at least in NY)
then develop and bring your student card as well... get 10-20% off.
10 minutes of film is approx 120 to 130 bucks using vision2 from kodak
I forget the developing costs... but all you have to tell them is to transfer from the negative directly to miniDV... I believe most places only do to mini DVCAM tapes if asked... so you need a deck to be able to play them... or convert them to mini DV

hope that helps... or confuses you further :)
 
the cheapest sync-sound camera you'll probably find would be the cinema products cp16. they're a bit of a pain in the ass but they're totally functional.
 
16 mm.

16 mm.

thanks a lot for the replies.
well i think that I don´t need a syncsound camera, the audio was recorded into a minidisc or a CF recorder.
The kind of the short film that i want.... ummm, I have a lot of projects but i am thinking in a terror-suspense by night... but i´m not sure. i´m looking for a specific look for this short film and I want to learn with a film camera.

thanks again
 
I don't think you understand what a sync-sound camera is. No film camera records sound. (and yes, that's an exaggeration, and no, we don't need to talk about Auricons, I'm talking about the practical state of the industry today).

You never record sound on the film. The sound always gets recorded on some other medium (whether Nagra or DAT or even on a videocamera). But a "sync-sound" camera is one that has two distinct features:
1) a crystal-controlled or AC synchronous motor, to provide precise running speed control
2) quiet.

Non-sync cameras aren't precisely speed-controlled, and can be extremely noisy -- EXTREMELY. Sync cameras like the CP16, Arri 16BL, Eclair etc. are much, much quieter. You can usually still hear them, but it's a tiny purr, vs. the sewing-machine growl of a Bolex or Krasnogorsk or Beaulieu.

So if you intend to record any audio at all, you want a sync camera.
 
but if you want to be reminded of the greatness that can be achieved with mos cams, watch any sergio leone western, any of the old disney nature doc-dramas (gentle ben, etc,) or, as everyone is quick to point out, el mariachi. plenty of others are out there. if your horror thing is light on dialogue (or you can shoot the reverse angle whenever anyone talks, like leone,) and most of the effects can be foley'd in (which for any horror flick should be true,) a hand-wound mos cam should be fine. and the bolex will probably outlive every dvx in existence.
 
As stated above - and from my own experience(and stubborness) NEVER FILM WITH A NON-SYNC SOUND CAMERA!!!!!!! - You will drive to yourself to the nut house after the first 100' of film

-Matt-
 
Right.

Things can be done, as always, but why set yourself up for so much pain and aggravation when you don't have to? You can experiment with blimps and whatnot, but it's just so much wasted energy, vs. doing it "right" (i.e., getting a cheap silent camera like a CP, or even an Auricon).
 
I don't have a link but look for the "Hairy Knuckles" series of short films or "Jesus Christ Vampire Hunter" for what can be done none sync with a bolex. All sound is post dubbed and is kind of like a cheesy spaghetti western, but it works. The director was able to maintain a very tight shooting ratio and fast shooting when not worrying about perfect sound and diologue on location, same for El Mariachi. Yes straight up hollywood style should be sync, but if you can make the style work then go for it. Telling your cast and crew that it cost's $50 a minute is a good motivator to get things right on the first take. Rehearse, rehearse.
 
discs of tron said:
but if you want to be reminded of the greatness that can be achieved with mos cams, watch any sergio leone western, any of the old disney nature doc-dramas (gentle ben, etc,) or, as everyone is quick to point out, el mariachi. plenty of others are out there. if your horror thing is light on dialogue (or you can shoot the reverse angle whenever anyone talks, like leone,) and most of the effects can be foley'd in (which for any horror flick should be true,) a hand-wound mos cam should be fine. and the bolex will probably outlive every dvx in existence.
Click to expand...

Reminds me of the story of how Stanley Kubrick made his first film. He shot "Fear and Desire" with a Mitchell Standard (mos) and got the film in the can for $9000. He had to spend another $30,000 to put together a sound track.

Barry is right, don't waste the energy. Do it right.
 
I think having a sync-sound cam is a luxury; any loud- as- hell Bolex will do. Just wear ear muffs:)

Has anyone shot a full mos film on the DVX?
 
There are many, many, many stories as to where the term MOS came from. One of the ones that I like best is that it was from some of the early German directors, they would say "With Out Sound" but it tended to sound like "Mit Out Sound" so it became MOS. As I said, there are other stories, but I kinda like this one best.
 
bikefilms said:
I think having a sync-sound cam is a luxury; any loud- as- hell Bolex will do. Just wear ear muffs:)

Has anyone shot a full mos film on the DVX?
Click to expand...

You'd better have your audience wear earmuffs. :laugh:
 
I myself own a C.P. GSMO. They are very rare to find, but they are almost (again I say almost) as small as an Aaton A-Minima, hold 400' of film, are decently quiet, can shoot up to 64fps, are Super 16 convertible, and use co-axial magazines. But if you can't find one of those, the old C.P. 16R's are still very good cameras and are also pretty quiet.
 
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