$150 for a 575 HMI par?

Also along those lines is this light http://www.altmanltg.com/cdm-master-ellipse.htm. It is a versatile 150w CDM,CMH/daylight. It has zoom, focus, light shaping, and gobo capability. I picked two of these up for $100 each on ebay.

I'm going to pick up one of these 575w PARs to add to my kit. This is a fun and informative thread. Good stuff.
 
nyvz said:
Anyway I realized I should probably have backup bulbs so I'm looking into what bulbs to buy. I just ordered a cheapo $35 one immediately to test that has specs about the same as the MSR575/2 I was using. I came across this one which sounds too good to be true: http://www.rakuten.com/prod/moving-...286816.html?sku=269286816&listingId=353353942
The specs say CRI90 and CCT5600k and 2000hr life, which all seem pretty ideal but how can this cheap have better color and twice as long life as the other bulbs at that price?
Click to expand...

Looks like it was to good to be true. i ordered the same bulb through Rakuten and this is what arrived today:
IMG_20150605_115711.jpgIMG_20150605_115719.jpgIMG_20150605_120443.jpg

I'll upload a raw side by side still for color comparison of a white wall vs the used Philips msr 575/2 bulbs my units arrived with from 4wall. One issue is that the bulb makes a very loud whine noise.
the specs on the philips msr 575/2 are here: http://www.lighting.philips.com/main/prof/touring-stage/msr/928171605103_EU/product
cri of 70 colormetrics are at the bottom of the page
 
Just gotta say thanks to every for the posts, I just picked up one of these and cant wait to get testing. I stupidly didn't know I could get a used bulb from them so mine arrived sans bulb, but the fixture was in way better condition than I thought it would be. Everything arrived in one piece as well.

I wanted to see how loud the fan is but I don't have a bulb, I figured I could just plug in the ballast without connection to the head, but when I plugged it in nothing happened, a very slight click noise, and that was it, no fan start up or anything. Do you know if these ballasts turn on when not connected to a head, or is there protection that it needs the head connected to even power on? Or did I just fry my ballast by doing something wrong and not connecting it to anything? PS I got the ETC one with the separate ballast.

Also are these bulbs decent? Anyone using them? http://www.amazon.com/AMERICAN-MSD-...8143&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=american+dj+575w

How about these?
http://www.amazon.com/LSE-Lighting-...1433538314&sr=1-2-catcorr&keywords=MSR+575W/2


Any help would be appreciated.

Also as far as replacing the fan for quieter ones, whats the DB rating on the one in the Enliten ETC Source Four with separate ballast? Cant find that info, thanks!
 
Another question which is... kinda one of those "dumb questions" but...

Roughly these are like a 575w HMI

If I used two of these right next to each other, would they then be roughly putting out the equivalent to an Arri 1.2K HMI?

Thanks again for any help. I just didn't know if layering 2 of these side by side and hitting some light diffusion would equal the same as a 1.2K hmi hitting that same light diffusion or is their something non-linear going on
 
Aharon Rothschild said:
Looks like it was to good to be true. i ordered the same bulb through Rakuten and this is what arrived today:
View attachment 101807View attachment 101808View attachment 101809

I'll upload a raw side by side still for color comparison of a white wall vs the used Philips msr 575/2 bulbs my units arrived with from 4wall. One issue is that the bulb makes a very loud whine noise.
the specs on the philips msr 575/2 are here: http://www.lighting.philips.com/main/prof/touring-stage/msr/928171605103_EU/product
cri of 70 colormetrics are at the bottom of the page
Click to expand...

Hmm hadn't expected a bulb to make additional noise, that would be a problem... And it's marked as a GY9.5 base? Does that work? Odd that it's marked MSD (usually 6000k) but is also marked 8000k, which is it in tests? I'd be curious to hear the findings of your tests. I also recently received my cheapo backup bulb (ebay best offer $35 http://www.ebay.com/itm/261407495304) but have yet to test it out, will try to test it next week when I have a moment.

As for the CRI of the MSR575/2, I know philips lists it as cri70, but they also seem to list it elsewhere as cri80 and some other sites list it as cri85 or cri80+ and I have no complaints about color rendering from my tests and field use of the used MSR575/2 bulbs that came with my lights. I mean I see no flaws at all in the skintones in those interview images I posted. I was half expecting to see minor defects or casts that might need a little correction but I don't see any. I mentioned this before but philips published the spectral graph of the MSR575/2 in their documentation and it is an identical graph to their cri90 version of the bulb... could be an error in the documentation or just an error in their attempt to artificially differentiate products...
 
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FilmDude said:
Just gotta say thanks to every for the posts, I just picked up one of these and cant wait to get testing. I stupidly didn't know I could get a used bulb from them so mine arrived sans bulb, but the fixture was in way better condition than I thought it would be. Everything arrived in one piece as well.

I wanted to see how loud the fan is but I don't have a bulb, I figured I could just plug in the ballast without connection to the head, but when I plugged it in nothing happened, a very slight click noise, and that was it, no fan start up or anything. Do you know if these ballasts turn on when not connected to a head, or is there protection that it needs the head connected to even power on? Or did I just fry my ballast by doing something wrong and not connecting it to anything? PS I got the ETC one with the separate ballast.

Also are these bulbs decent? Anyone using them? http://www.amazon.com/AMERICAN-MSD-...8143&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=american+dj+575w

How about these?
http://www.amazon.com/LSE-Lighting-...1433538314&sr=1-2-catcorr&keywords=MSR+575W/2


Any help would be appreciated.

Also as far as replacing the fan for quieter ones, whats the DB rating on the one in the Enliten ETC Source Four with separate ballast? Cant find that info, thanks!
Click to expand...

The clicking noise is the enliten ballast trying to strike the bulb. You will only hear the fan after the bulb is struck.

There isn't a manufacturer listed for the AmericanDJ bulbs so I'd guess generic Chinese bulbs. My experience with them is that they are loud.... You can hear the equivalent here:

https://youtu.be/omhUrtQaoH0

You can combine sources. Light is light. The question is dealing with shadows a.d if you are bouncing or diffusing you combine to one large source. There are multi source lights like fay and badger.....
 
Aharon Rothschild said:
The clicking noise is the enliten ballast trying to strike the bulb. You will only hear the fan after the bulb is struck.

There isn't a manufacturer listed for the AmericanDJ bulbs so I'd guess generic Chinese bulbs. My experience with them is that they are loud.... You can hear the equivalent here:

https://youtu.be/omhUrtQaoH0

You can combine sources. Light is light. The question is dealing with shadows a.d if you are bouncing or diffusing you combine to one large source. There are multi source lights like fay and badger.....
Click to expand...


Ah thanks for that heads up, that is pretty freaking loud buzz, I just got one of these so I guess I'm in for some crazy buzz, I'll have to get a "real" lamp I guess and pay the big bucks, any idea on the cheapest 575w thats a real brand? are those ones they sell for 130 from the site buzz free?

I guess I was referring to the intensity or lumens output being equal to a 1.2K hmi vs 2x 575w hmi's
 
On some globes, the buzz or whine goes away after the bulb has been run for awhile. Some globes spec at up to 100 hours for the color to stabilize, too.

I got a new-old stock Phillips broadway (paid $50 or so) which works fine and is quiet, and the used bulb that shipped with the fixture is quiet as well. I'd think a name-brand bulb would be fine, but the 6000k ones are more expensive than the 7200k. If you scroll through this thread you'll find a link or two.
 
@michael @noah
The burn in might quiet down the bulb. Only one way to find out:)
As to CRI I'm thinking that the spectral graph on the philips bulbs looks complete, so the spectrum is there.... The product page for these bulbs actually mentions "vibrant color" the low or varying CRI may be that the chips in the test come back with incorrect color because of spikes in the spectral distribution and not due to missing spectrum like a sodium vapor light.
I'm putting together a real world lighting test daylight/tungsten/hid par, and I'll post the raw files as well as screen grabs of the vectorscope and corrected images.
My take on this is that if these lights can be gelled to mix well with daylight and render good skin, then that's really all that matters....
 
So I got my bulb today, fairly easy to instal with the manual downloaded from here. Popped it in, tossed in a lens and plugged everything in. The light came right on and reached max brightness fairly quickly. The bulb buzz was there but not anywhere near as loud as that video posted of the 1.2K hmi. It was also much higher pitched which although is audible to the ear, mic's would and could be padded with a filter to cut that out, the fan wasn't as loud as I thought it would be either, it's loud enough that in a 20'x 15' room you can hear it as a hum but not overly loud. Though I don't think audio would be possible in a small room with that ballast in it. I'm definitely going to get the 25' extension for the ballast to be able to snake outside a smaller room. I'm going to try and burn in the light and do some quick tests outside today, but to my eye I could see it was not so bad, I could see a tiny spike in green which obviously will be corrected with gels, and although it should be cooler than daylight, it didn't seem overly cool like cheap LED lights that just look blue.

I'm going to pick up another one of these for sure, all in all I'm happy so far with the limited testing I did. For exterior work this should be totally fine without any fan mod or expensive bulbs. For indoor work I'm most likely going to see if there is any quieter fan I can stick in it, and possibly spend the $130 for a philips bulb and see if it's quiet right off the bat.

I'm also looking into that FX products line for possibly make a 1/4 CTO with -green on a glass filter, that would be awesome and in the long run save money on gels and reassure myself that the temp stays right when using cheaper bulbs rather than spending 130 buxs on a bulb every time.

Anyone know of the quietest fan that can be put in this unit? I read on here someone said it might already have the quietest one? Is that true? it was worded weird so I didn't quite understand.
 
I've been using all sorts of discharge lights for years, theatrically - and taking a new lamp out of a box to replace a failed one never guarantees the same light you had before. Worse is follow spots. Two identical bits of kit, with identical lamp types and if you put two brand new lamps from the same batch in at the same time, they match perfectly. If one fails after 50 or so hours, no replacement ever looks the same. Slightly different colour temperature and usually quite different brightness. If they must match, you relamp everything at the same time. In my theatre productions, you may have some amazing looking setups with loads of moving lights, that looks great - until one lamp goes, and then that new one stands out looking stupid! The desk operator might try dropping the level a little - but in discharge fittings this just obscures part of the beam, and impacts on the look - and it still stands out, but maybe not quite so much.

This is just how discharge lamps are. The chinese ones seem to have more variable differences between batches, and fail more frequently - the pinch seal in most cases, I've found. Some do make quite a row, as has been said. Quality control is a bit iffy, but they are cheaper. I can't say for certain, but my impression is more Chinese ones explode than the branded ones - but that's just from cleaning the mess out!
 
hmm so it seems I have a very quiet 18dbA fan in there already but much louder than that, I'll try just swapping out for a new one. If thats not as quiet as I want it, I'm going to mod my case and put a much larger 60mm or 80mm fan that can push air with lower noise, should solve the problem. Now to just get the right fan.

Question about lenses...

I put the lenses in the way the manual says ( curved part going in) it seems like that is awfully close to the actual bulb inside... Should I put them in reverse just to keep the extra heat and air movement between glass and lamp optimal? or will that extra inch distance not make much of a difference? I know its harder to take out the lenses the other way but I've ordered the lens tool which would make that not a problem
 
nyvz said:
Yeah somehow that 40mm fan is specced at 6000rpm and 18dBa but I don't buy that...
Click to expand...

I have a feeling that spec is for about 4-6 months of use, then it gets noisy

Aharon Rothschild said:
Any good leads on a replacement?
Click to expand...

To be honest it seems to be one of the lowest dbA rating of those kind. I found a 14dbA but again, from the reviews online it seems that they stay quiet until they get dirty, once they are they are noisy again. So unless you wanna buy a new fan every 4-6 months, a replacement option might just suck.

I'm definably going for a modded case option. The design allows this to be easy, I can just replace the big panel on the case and put it one with a much bigger fan that will hopefully be quiet. The other option is to put in some kinda potentiometer between the power of the fan to lower the speed, maybe it's overly spec'ed so I could half the speed and it still be enough to cool the unit?

the only worry about putting a bigger fan is there is more space for dirt to get in, I'd have to put some kinda filter over it which might make it louder again.


As for testing I took the light outside today in my first daylight test... The light at about 8 feet away with the medium wide lens with no diff and stronger than direct daylight. This time I did notice a strong blue hue, looks like it needs about 1/2 CTO and a little bit of -Green for sure. I think tomorrow I'm going to B&H to get the gels and extended ballast cables. Tuesday I'm bringing it on a commercial shoot, so we'll test it out then on actual work.
 
nyvz said:
Yeah I used a similar TVMP yoke to stand adapter like that, a bit smaller though.

This is the fan I used http://www.ebay.com/itm/371067557249
And I just stuck a reverse-bias 12v 1A zener diode just before the fan to drop the 24v to 12v.
Click to expand...

can you point me in the right direction to the reverse bias 12v diode? all this will do is step down the power to 12v and not hurt anything else correct? I'll be throwing in a 80mm case fan but want 12v for ease of purchase and testing, I can pick up 12v fans in stores all around me.
 
The diode I got was just the 12v zener diode from RadioShack, they are $1 each. Just install it backwards (reverse bias) in serial with the fan.
 
Keep in mind that the extension cable sketch shows a max length of 150' for 14 AWG cable - so if you can't find a quieter fan solution, that's under $100 of wire (based on a quick google search).

Even doing a 50' or 100' extension (if you can wire up your own powercon ends, and I assume you can choose solder or terminal plugs) would negate the fan noise, and could be really really handy for fighting the sun, as you would have a lot more freedom outdoors as far as distance from power or gennies goes (and in Texas summers, I like having the ability to get the ballast indoors or in the shade at least… 104+ degrees is pretty normal around here - already planning on painting my ballast silver!)
 
Update for mods:

Went to B&H and got some good stuff

so I got the power cupler and 25' extension, works like a charm! So now the ballast is like a normal film ballast.

I removed the C-clamp (which by the way is a pain, but if you take off the yoke, put some heavy weights on it or put in a vice, and use a big wrench to rotate it, it should come off.) There was no way for the bolt to come out of it's place on my ETC version, but the Impact TVMP adapter had same bolt thread size so it went right in. Now goes on any normal film lighting stands.

I got some new Color Correction gels from Rosco. The 1/4 minus Green I think is perfect for taking out that green spike on the cheap bulb I got. Now onto getting it balanced...

I used 1/8 CTO to eye looks to be about right. I also had some slightly more "straw" gel of same strength. So it's just a slight more on the yellow end. They are very close to each other, and a simply WB with card should correct for that easy anyway.

Dont mind the destroyed light in the ceiling, It's getting repaired because of a leak ugh... Anyway, here's my big ole forehead for skin tone, and my white celling. I put this through some Rosco 250 diffusion.

First one is the -Green with light straw through 250
Second is -Green only through 250
Third is -Green with 1/8 CTO

This was just using my iphone so this isn't really a great test, but it shows at least a difference between them. I have the actual shoot tomorrow and everything is packed up so theres no way I'm unpacking tonight.
photo 1.JPGphoto 2.JPGphoto 3.JPG

As you can see, to the iPhone the light straw (which i have TONS of) is very close to the 1/8 CTO So I'm very happy I can not spend anything more on a lot of 1/8 CTO.

More tests to come with mods shortly.

By the way the light setup was as follows:

HMI with medium wide lens and barn doors
-Green on barns
3' of space to a gel knife holder with 20"x 24"Rosco 250 in it
5' from the diff is my big forehead.
 
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