1080/24progressive over 60interlaced... say what???

R

R Gale

Well-known member
I feel like Faye Dunaway in Chinatown:
"It's Progressive! *slap!*
It's Interlaced! *slap!*
It's Progressive! *slap!*
It's Interlaced! *slap!*
It's Progressive and it's interlaced!"

The operating instructions (top of p.38) describe "shooting in 1080i progressive mode..."
(1080interlaced progressive mode?) :huh:

So if 1080/24p (over 60i) is 24 frames per sec., converted to 60 Interlaced fields per sec....

Let's pretend that Final Cut Pro can edit 1080/24p (which it will one day). Once FCP removed the pulldown, I'd be left with true PROGRESSIVE frames? No zipper blurs on action/moving parts? Is it a true Progressive signal that happens to be tucked inside a 60interlaced signal? Would the results be identical to 720/24p (over 60p), except for higher resolution?
 
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Good questions, I am playing with 1080 24pA footage.
FCP cannot handle it very well. Cinema Tools is confused by it.
I have been able to bring 1080 24pA footage into After Effects.
It will guess the advanced pulldown.
I have about 4 clips in a project and I can render a 23.976
file. I can take that file back into a 720p 24p project and it looks
good. I did have to convert to Apple RGB gamma so the output from AE is matching to FCP.
Why am I doing all this?????
I will be shooting some pick-up shots for a production that
was shot on HDCAM. They want to spend as little as possible (of course) so they said if I could get them compatible files then I can do the gig. I am giving them a 1920x1080 PhotoJPEG file that they can drop in the time line. SO far with my testing it looks like it will work.
 
R Gale, your understanding is exactly correct.

True progressive, recorded within an interlaced wrapper. Remove the pulldown and you'll restore it to full progressive.

The results are identical to 720/24pN but with a bit more resolution. Not twice as much (as might be implied by the spatial dimensions of the frame) but more. Maybe 20%-30% more horizontal, maybe 5% more vertical.
 
Thats why we need your book. I have inquired to several different sources as to how to work with the 1080 24 modes. Jan from Panasonic said I should give up and be happy with 720p.
The other day you were saying to use 720p 24pN and forget about it. Since day one I bought this camera for the express intent of shooting 1080. Now yesterday you are saying 1080 is where it is at. Evinsky tried to help me with FCP, Cinema Tools and a method of dealing with 24pA footage. The only thing I have got to work is removing the 24pA pulldown in After Effects. I tried every setting in Cinema Tools and kept chasing Rabbits down the hole. I thought I had it figured out except Cinema Tools was re-sizing the output? Still have not found out what is going on. I have played with Raylight,
its OK but it seems to effect the gamma to the degree that it would be unreliable. If I can get the output settings in Ae to match my outout of FCP then I will have a workable solution of dealing with 1080 24pA HVX footage.
 
Barry_Green said:
The results are identical to 720/24pN but with a bit more resolution. Not twice as much (as might be implied by the spatial dimensions of the frame) but more. Maybe 20%-30% more horizontal, maybe 5% more vertical.
Click to expand...

Thanks Barry. So 1080i/24p IS progressive! Everyone should just ignore the "i"!
:kali: i

It just goes to show how incredibly misleading the names of those 1080 shooting modes are on the HVX menu: 1080i/24p, and 30p, and 24pA. It's no wonder several professionals are under the impression that the camera can only shoot 1080interlaced. The freakin' menu says 1080i!

So once Final Cut Pro can handle 1080/24pA, that would then be the best format when shooting for filmout, yes?

HVXGuy, if you can get workable 1080/24pA footage out of AE, please share your output settings. Thanks!
 
Yes, in my opinion, 1080/24p is the ultimate filmout format.

I don't know why they chose to add the "i" in there, it's causing confusion left and right. There never was an "i" listed in the DVX, yet it operates exactly the same way, so why add the "i" now? I don't know.

I sincrely doubt I ever said "use 720 and forget about it", did I? I prefer 1080 in all cases whenever possible, and only go for 720/24pN when needing the extra recording time on the cards. Only thing has been figuring out a way to edit 1080 it AS 24p. It's my understanding that FCP is supposed to somehow be able to cinema-tool-ize out the pulldown, and Canopus looks like it can handle it too. Avid can't. But all three programs might get big updates next month at NAB.

I've used 1080/24PA through Raylight, it works fine.

Even so, HVX'ers are still way ahead of the game at this point in the product life cycle. Don't forget it was two YEARS before Avid and Apple supported the HDV format of the first JVC HD1, and it's been over a year since JVC announced their 24P variant of HDV and neither Apple nor Avid have native support for that yet either. We're only 10 weeks into the HVX's life cycle and already we've got Raylight and Canopus offering full support, and Avid and FCP are close (so close) but don't quite have 1080/24P sussed yet.
 
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Barry,
My goal is to eventually combine DVX100A footage (shot letterbox, F6 setting) with HVX 1080/24 footage (I want the HVX footage to look better, not to match) into a single filmout project. Given that:
1. Should I shoot 1080/24p or pA (there's 2 diff. options, correct?)?
2. Should I just set up my FCP project settings for my DVX footage and worry about the HVX footage later? Hopefully, by the end of summer, FCP will figure out how to handle 1080/24p(A). And only then I worry about editing the HD footage and then combining it...does that sound right?

It's just that at a FCP Usser's Group meeting I was advised to set up my standard definition project with HD settings so I wouldn't run into problems once I bring in the HD footage. So either I choose to shoot 720 and then I can set-up one FCP project to handle both types of footage, or I shoot 1080, go ahead and edit the DVX100A footage, and worry about editing HD footage and combining both types later.

Does that sound right? If I go ahead and shoot 720, do I want 24pn or pA to combine with footage shot on the F6 setting of the DVX100A?

(A third option would be to not edit anything until FCP figures out 1080/24p(A) footage, but I can't really afford to do that because I have 100 hours of DVX100A footage...it's a documentary, and I need to edit that as I go along...I'll shoot very little HD, just some re-enatment scenes...but they need to be lush since they're romance novels brought to life...)

sorry for being longwinded.....
btw, love your book
Sabrina
 
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