10 Dead in MN

ChuckS

ChuckS

Veteran
A while back someone posted about a high school kid who was arrested because his grandparents turned him in after reading a paper he wrote (something like that). Any connection with the recent school shooting in Minnesota?

I searched for the thread but didn't find it.
 
Thanks for the pointing me to the original post, I don't know why I couldn't find it.

This story was about a kid in Clark County NV. When I saw the report about the shooting in MN it made me go "hmm" I wonder if there was any connection.

Nope.
 
I heard about it when I got home from work yesterday. All the local news stations were breaking in with their "Special Reports." Some messed up ****.
 
It’s completely tragic. The school had onsite security and medal detectors however the first victim was the security guard manning the medal detector. After he killed the guard he had the entire school to himself.

It seems they had reinforced their classroom doors as well, several teachers were apparently able to shut him out.

It’s just messed up, those families are obviously scarred forever.
 
The problem is telling when a kid's gonna snap though and most anyone can get a gun if they really want one... Heck if we really wanted to we could pin the whole problem on society in general - our lack of respect for others. I think just about anyone could be tagged the scapegoat. What matters most is what we do now.

I don't know what the answer is but something more effective needs to be done. I mean, when your security guard is the first person to die there's just something wrong... I lived in Colorado when the whole Columbine thing happened. It really pissed me off.
 
John_Hudson said:
Damn; my kid start K Grade this coming OCTOBER. What do we need at schools? A police state?
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Some schools are already police states. The fact that some high schools have to put up gates, reinforced doors, metal detectors, armed police (the school I work at has all of these) should tell you something about the safety of schools. I mean, these are things you find in prisons! I'm not surprised by the shooting in Minnesota. I'm surpirsed that school shootings aren't more frequent!
 
A disturbing trend. Let's forget about the schools for a second though; let's talk about parenting; why did this kid have access to his grandfathers police weapons?
 
Good point John. The kid's father had committed suicide and his mother was supposedly killed in a car crash--I'm not surprised he was unhinged. Sadly, it's all too easy for kids to get a hold of guns from irresponsible adults that don't bother keeping their weapons adequately secured.
 
You know its funny, I grew up in a home where I had easy access to enough weapons to arm a small third world country and I NEVER would have even thought about doing something like this... Different times... But I agree, parenting is definitely lacking.

I also believe that part of the problem is compulsory education. We keep everyone in school even if they are disruptive or potentially violent. Gone are the days when a troublemaker would be expelled or sent to reform school. I truly believe that this politically correct stance has weakened public schools for all who attend. We have, in some cases, completely destroyed the right of parents and conscientious students to learn in order to preserve the privilege of education for those who have no regard for it....
 
I totally agree with that' which kind of sways towards how much we pay our teachers; like they really give a flying ****, ya know? The profession is a dying breed whereas schools are begging for teachers offering accelerated programs and even offering positions of teaching to people who arent even licensed or degreed.

The principals are out of alignment.
 
MattC said:
You know its funny, I grew up in a home where I had easy access to enough weapons to arm a small third world country and I NEVER would have even thought about doing something like this... Different times... But I agree, parenting is definitely lacking.

I also believe that part of the problem is compulsory education. We keep everyone in school even if they are disruptive or potentially violent. Gone are the days when a troublemaker would be expelled or sent to reform school. I truly believe that this politically correct stance has weakened public schools for all who attend. We have, in some cases, completely destroyed the right of parents and conscientious students to learn in order to preserve the privilege of education for those who have no regard for it....
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ditto.

That was precisely why I decided to send my kids to a private school. Guess what? It's marginally better. Every time you have a beef about something, they use the 'ministry of education requirement' bullshit. My daughter has been harrassed by this kid who has severe behavioral problem (supposedly because a few years ago he himself suffered a series of concussions while being bullied by another kid). So we have this nice chain reaction, and I just have to worry about what effect will it have on my daughter...

The school VP is trying to skirt the issue, but I am basically at a point where one more incident and lawyers will be called.

To add insult to the injury, the school owner's husband sometimes dabbles as a substitute teacher. I just learned last week that he makes political statements (Bush is evil - that's a quote). Regardless of whether I agree or disagree, one reason I took my kids out of public school was that the teachers' unions we becoming increasingly political, pulling my kids and my family into their fight with the government. Classroom, like dvxuser.com, should be free of politics, especially of political views imposed by teachers on their students.

Sorry to digress again...

I don't understand why schools don't work more like real society: you make trouble - you are out. That should include students as well as teachers. But even in real life, it seems like the loud, obnoxious, and violent minority is getting upper hand over the silent, polite, and peaceful majority.
 
MattC said:
I also believe that part of the problem is compulsory education. We keep everyone in school even if they are disruptive or potentially violent. Gone are the days when a troublemaker would be expelled or sent to reform school. I truly believe that this politically correct stance has weakened public schools for all who attend. We have, in some cases, completely destroyed the right of parents and conscientious students to learn in order to preserve the privilege of education for those who have no regard for it....
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I absolutely agree. The complaint some people have concerning parents and their parenting skills when it comes to these school shootings ignores the fact that parents are compelled by law to give up their children to public schools. By the time children leave the public school system, they have spent more hours socializing and "learning" from their peers and teachers than from their own parents. So who exactly is raising these kids? Not the parents. Indeed, the law makes it very clear that schools and teachers manage children in loco parentis--in place of the parent. I think I have made this point before in another thread, but in the USA you have the right to go to school, but you don't have the right NOT to go. Even if you homeschool (at least in California) you are required by law to notify your county. Many of the problems of public school are rooted in the cumpulsory nature of schooling.
 
John_Hudson said:
how much we pay our teachers; like they really give a flying ****, ya know?
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John, I respectfully disagree.

Yes, money is a factor, but only so much. Canadian teachers are among the best paid teachers in the world. Still, out of every ten teachers I got to know over the years of my kids schooling, nine don't give a flying **** either, being well paid no matter how good/crappy they are, unionized and tenured.

I have been fortunate to work in unions-free environment for the past fourteen years (unlike my wife who, when she refused to join the unions, was told that she wouldn't get the job - talking about free country here). Vast majority of people I have worked with over the years are professional, well paid, and productive - no unions needed.

I have yet to see a unionized environment where all three attributes are present. Actually, I know only one unionized environment where two are present, but maybe I just don't get out enough. :thumbsup:

I honestly don't know where the root of the problem is (M. Moore undoubtedly does - he might have another far-reaching movie to make). Easy access to guns is part of it, but it's not all of it, either. Violent movies? Maybe...

Maybe the society has become too self-centered and greedy. It doesn't take a village to raise a child anymore. The kids are mostly on their own... no wonder they do crazy things when they snap... :cry:
 
Maybe I'm the exception here, but my kids are in excellent public (elementary) schools. The stuff they learn is amazing--they get them started early with a lot of advanced concepts (like statistics) and really emphasize the fundamentals (reading, writing and math). The schools have a zero tolerance policy on bullying, and of course you can't eradicate it, but the policy helps a lot on establishing a good environment. The teaching methods are pretty advanced compared to when I was growing up and they seem to have actually figured out a thing or two about the ways kids learn. My taxes are high and I don't mind paying because the county services are good. However, good public education requires the will (and finances) of the community. Sadly, just a few miles away in DC the public schools are a nightmare.
 
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