1/3" VS 1/2" CCD chips

S

sodotoguwangus

Well-known member
Couple questions:

First...

I understand that one of the benefits of larger chips is a shallower depth-of-field.

My question is: would a 1/3 inch CCD camera (a la, HVX200) WITH a mini35 adaptor be capable of achieving a shallower depth-of-field than, say, a 1/2" CCD camera WITHOUT an adaptor? Or would the camera with the larger chips always prevaile in depth-of-field regardless of the 35mm adaptor?

Also, I know it's a dumb question, but...

What is better 2/3" CCDs or 1/2" CCD's? I'm assuming that it's the 1/2", but I just want to make sure.
 
Bigger the sensor is, the easier it is to get narrow deap of field.

But with lens adaptor you can get as much deap of field back as you wish with the other cam.

Now lightning can become the problem. So it is not just 1 benifit, but multiple benifit that interconnect together. But you can with with the HVX + 35mm adaptor do as much as other camera with bigger sensor, but some scene will be alot more chalanging, and require more lightning and processing.

But I might be wrong
 
sodotoguwangus said:
My question is: would a 1/3 inch CCD camera (a la, HVX200) WITH a mini35 adaptor be capable of achieving a shallower depth-of-field than, say, a 1/2" CCD camera WITHOUT an adaptor?
Click to expand...

Yes.
Also, I know it's a dumb question, but...

What is better 2/3" CCDs or 1/2" CCD's? I'm assuming that it's the 1/2", but I just want to make sure.
Click to expand...

Its not a dumb question. Simple rule: the bigger the sensor, the shallower DOF you get. 2/3 ist more (0.666) than 1/2 (0.5), so you get shallower DOF with the 2/3" sensor.

Remember, bigger sensors have a MUCH better performance as they get more light than smaller ones.
 
The mini35 would make for extremely shallower DOF than a 1/2" or 2/3" camera. But the 1/2" or 2/3" would make for a lot cleaner picture.
 
Barry_Green said:
The mini35 would make for extremely shallower DOF than a 1/2" or 2/3" camera. But the 1/2" or 2/3" would make for a lot cleaner picture.
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Agreed. A 35mm adaptor will give you the benefits of the 35mm film depth of field. basically you use 35mm camera lenses, and get the same depth of field that you would get on a 35mm stills camera. Better depth of field than a 2/3inch camera.

Even a cheap $250 camera with a single quarter inch chip, fitted to a 35mm adaptor, will give a shallower depth of field than a 2/3 3 chip camera. But the picture will be lousy.
 
Barry_Green said:
The mini35 would make for extremely shallower DOF than a 1/2" or 2/3" camera. But the 1/2" or 2/3" would make for a lot cleaner picture.
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How much softer will the picture be with a 35mm adapter? Is there any use for it shooting in HD?
 
I think it is easier (and far more correct) to compare Depth of Field to the focal length of the lens. The longer the focal length, the shallower the DoF. Aperature is also a factor, the narrower it is the deeper the DoF.

Of course, the larger the sensor, the longer the focal length lens that is used to give a particular angle of view. A 35mm adapter allows for the use of longer lenses without producing a super telephoto effect that would occur if the lens focused the image straight onto a small CCD.

Everything else being equal, the larger the CCD, the "better" the image and the easier it is to achieve shallow DoF. Therefore a 1/2" is prefered to a 1/3" and a 2/3" prefered over a 1/2".
 
Now I have to ask you one newbie question. Oke, when you are shooting on real 35mm film, is the shallow depth of field always 'turned on'? I mean, do you have to shoot always with shallow depth of field or can you turn it on also 'off'? :undecided Dumb question perhaps, but I have never understood that one. Does the film ALWAYS have the shallow depth of field? :huh: Hope you understood what I meant.
 
petelms said:
Now I have to ask you one newbie question. Oke, when you are shooting on real 35mm film, is the shallow depth of field always 'turned on'? I mean, do you have to shoot always with shallow depth of field or can you turn it on also 'off'? :undecided Dumb question perhaps, but I have never understood that one. Does the film ALWAYS have the shallow depth of field? :huh: Hope you understood what I meant.
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It a optic property, not a on camera feature.

Depending of the lens you use, the distance of your subject and the setings of the apererature and others settings of the camera, it will be different
 
mochouinard said:
It a optic property, not a on camera feature.

Depending of the lens you use, the distance of your subject and the setings of the apererature and others settings of the camera, it will be different
Click to expand...

To expand on what mochouinard says, you can control DoF to an extent, but larger sensors tend to lead to shallower DoF because longer focal length lenses are used.

Remember, DoF is NOT an effect of the imager size. It is a result of the lens length and aperture. A DoP can alter camera position, lighting and filters in order to control these and in turn control DoF

To achieve shallower DoF:
* Open the aperature (use ND filters or shorter exposure times to allow this whilst maintaining correct exposure)
* Use a longer focal length lens. You may have to move the camera away from subjest so the shot is wide enough.
 
Another advantage, as hinted, of bigger chips is less noise and much better performance in low light.


ash =o)
 
DOF is a function of lens length, aperture AND size of the image plane. If it was just aperture and lens length why would everyone want to get a larger sensor and pay the 10Ks more

Everything equal a larger image plane will result in shallower depth of field - the light has a larger area to create a circle of confusion.

To see a fantastic visual of how this works check out hollywood camera works. Its probably the best explanation of this.
 
petelms said:
Now I have to ask you one newbie question. Oke, when you are shooting on real 35mm film, is the shallow depth of field always 'turned on'? I mean, do you have to shoot always with shallow depth of field or can you turn it on also 'off'? :undecided Dumb question perhaps, but I have never understood that one. Does the film ALWAYS have the shallow depth of field? :huh: Hope you understood what I meant.
Click to expand...
The shallow depth-of-field characteristic is always "turned on" in the 35mm format due to its larger image area (although mmm's explanation is technically correct, it may be easier to think of it as: the reason the lenses are longer is that they are imaging for an area that is larger). DPs can increase the depth-of-field in the 35mm format by stopping the lens down to a smaller (numerically, higher) aperture or "f/stop." Instead of shooting at say, f/1.2, you would stop the lens down to say, f/11 to increase your depth-of-field. You of course need to increase the light level correspondingly.
 
smelni said:
DOF is a function of lens length, aperture AND size of the image plane.
Click to expand...
DOF is also a function of subject-to-image plane focal distance. The closer the focus, the shallower the depth-of-field.
 
I understand that without a 35mm adaptor, in order to get a shallow depth of field, you want to open the iris, stand far away and zoom in on your subject, and put as much space between the subject and background as possible.

But my question is...

With a 35mm adaptor, do you still have to do all of the above? Or is it simpler? Say, for example, you are shooting a scene in a small room where there is not enough space to put a lot of distance between the camera and the subject. Is it possible to achieve the shallow depth of field with a 35mm adaptor in smaller spaces like this? Or inside a car, for example?
 
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