For use with the HVX, yes, currently. FCP appears to be the only viable choice at the moment (unless you go to dedicated hardware, etc.).Steve Shovlar said:
Besides that? No. Not by any means.
Is Final Cut Pro going to be available on PC?
- Thread starter Smart Alac
- Start date
Besides that? No. Not by any means.
Steve Shovlar
DVXuser Sponsor
I was just giving my opinion David. Nothing more. Everyone has their favourite application.
lookatmeimbender
Active member
pc would be better on dreaming of improved pc softwar such as vegas avid and premiere.
Steve Shovlar said:
True that. As was I.
:beer:
What really happens to other vendors of Mac software...
What really happens to other vendors of Mac software...
"Is Final Cut Pro going to be available on the PC?" Short answer: NEVER (other then maybe some hack that allows it to run in a light emulation environment in Windows and is NOT supported by Apple or a hack to get the whole OSX to run on non-Apple hardware, also not supported by Apple).
Adobe did not want to take Premiere out of the Mac market, and I know quite a few people who wanted to be able to use it on the Mac. Not only because they know it, but because for their specific application (animatics made from scanned storyboards) it was (and probably still is) the best program out there.
What Apple did is exactly the same as they have done to several other outside developers, no matter the harm to their consumers--let alone a vendor (such as Adobe and Avid) who Apple wouldn't have survived the lean years without.
Apple wants to own the high-end software market and is going about it in ways that make MS's wars over Office software and web browsers seem tame. Basically they are determined to create a market where you have to buy a Mac to run FCP or something else, and once you've made that step if you want another postproduction package you'll have to buy it from them (ala Shake and Garage Band).
They have been, for the last couple years now, actively working against Adobe and Avid (including ProTools) specifically. It is the worst in software, but even in hardware, Avid and other key hardware vendors have to find out about major revisions (PCI voltage a year or so ago in the middle of the G4 run I think it was, for example) because their customers buy a replacement or upgrade computer and it doesn't work.
On the software side, Apple does not have the long, developer-centric betas MS does, nor much documentation of changes made, nor much input from the outside. They have a general beta, and developers have found major surprise architectural changes between the last beta and the retail release which greatly impact their software. An Avid engineer told me about such a situation, forcing them to redo development to run under Tiger, meanwhile FCP was available practically day and date with Tiger. So the in-house developers find out everything they need and it gives them an unfair advantage against the competition.
This is why what used to be the premiere (no pun intended) applications on the Mac are now all developed first, and sometimes exclusively, on the PC. Now that they've finally got modern, fast CPUs in the Macs the only reason the Mac will have a poor choice of applications is Apple itself.
And that's just not something I can cotton to. Why not have choice? Why would I not want the possibility of jumping into Premiere or Avid (or the next big NEW thing) if something isn't doing what I need?
One more thing to consider, as soon as they bought Shake Apple discontinued the Windows version, even though it was popular. It's not about developing multiple versions--they continued the x86 Linux version. They're clearly out to use their control of the hardware and the OS to build monopolies, to restrict you wherever it's profitable to their products only. It was evil when MS tried it, why isn't it just as evil when Apple does it now?
What really happens to other vendors of Mac software...
"Is Final Cut Pro going to be available on the PC?" Short answer: NEVER (other then maybe some hack that allows it to run in a light emulation environment in Windows and is NOT supported by Apple or a hack to get the whole OSX to run on non-Apple hardware, also not supported by Apple).
darwinandpaine said:
Adobe did not want to take Premiere out of the Mac market, and I know quite a few people who wanted to be able to use it on the Mac. Not only because they know it, but because for their specific application (animatics made from scanned storyboards) it was (and probably still is) the best program out there.
What Apple did is exactly the same as they have done to several other outside developers, no matter the harm to their consumers--let alone a vendor (such as Adobe and Avid) who Apple wouldn't have survived the lean years without.
Apple wants to own the high-end software market and is going about it in ways that make MS's wars over Office software and web browsers seem tame. Basically they are determined to create a market where you have to buy a Mac to run FCP or something else, and once you've made that step if you want another postproduction package you'll have to buy it from them (ala Shake and Garage Band).
They have been, for the last couple years now, actively working against Adobe and Avid (including ProTools) specifically. It is the worst in software, but even in hardware, Avid and other key hardware vendors have to find out about major revisions (PCI voltage a year or so ago in the middle of the G4 run I think it was, for example) because their customers buy a replacement or upgrade computer and it doesn't work.
On the software side, Apple does not have the long, developer-centric betas MS does, nor much documentation of changes made, nor much input from the outside. They have a general beta, and developers have found major surprise architectural changes between the last beta and the retail release which greatly impact their software. An Avid engineer told me about such a situation, forcing them to redo development to run under Tiger, meanwhile FCP was available practically day and date with Tiger. So the in-house developers find out everything they need and it gives them an unfair advantage against the competition.
This is why what used to be the premiere (no pun intended) applications on the Mac are now all developed first, and sometimes exclusively, on the PC. Now that they've finally got modern, fast CPUs in the Macs the only reason the Mac will have a poor choice of applications is Apple itself.
And that's just not something I can cotton to. Why not have choice? Why would I not want the possibility of jumping into Premiere or Avid (or the next big NEW thing) if something isn't doing what I need?
One more thing to consider, as soon as they bought Shake Apple discontinued the Windows version, even though it was popular. It's not about developing multiple versions--they continued the x86 Linux version. They're clearly out to use their control of the hardware and the OS to build monopolies, to restrict you wherever it's profitable to their products only. It was evil when MS tried it, why isn't it just as evil when Apple does it now?
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The Machinist
Respected Member
If Apple wanted to abolish Premiere on the Mac how come Adobe still puts out Mac compatible software like After Effects or the CS2 suite?
Where are you getting your info that Apple shut out Adobe Premiere? I can't ever remember reading about this anywhere.
Why not get rid of After Effects also when they released Shake?
Will Photoshop become a thing of the past now because Apple has released Aperture?
Also it was evil when MS tried it because of the deals MS was working with other PC manufacturers. Hence the govt. investigation into their practices. Apple makes their own hardware and therefore should be allowed to decide what gets put on it. If the software available for it now was insufficient for the task or a detriment in some way then Macs wouldn't be carving a niche into the Video Production Realm. Choice is always a plus but an educated consumer will know this if and when they decide to purchase a Mac system. When i made the switch two years ago I weighed the pros and cons. And decided that the experiences I had had up to that point with the Apple line of Production software were enough to make me leave behind my PC-Premiere setup.
Where are you getting your info that Apple shut out Adobe Premiere? I can't ever remember reading about this anywhere.
Why not get rid of After Effects also when they released Shake?
Will Photoshop become a thing of the past now because Apple has released Aperture?
Also it was evil when MS tried it because of the deals MS was working with other PC manufacturers. Hence the govt. investigation into their practices. Apple makes their own hardware and therefore should be allowed to decide what gets put on it. If the software available for it now was insufficient for the task or a detriment in some way then Macs wouldn't be carving a niche into the Video Production Realm. Choice is always a plus but an educated consumer will know this if and when they decide to purchase a Mac system. When i made the switch two years ago I weighed the pros and cons. And decided that the experiences I had had up to that point with the Apple line of Production software were enough to make me leave behind my PC-Premiere setup.
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AppliedVisual
Active member
Actually the problem is Adobe doesn't really like Apple that much anymore and doesn't want to compete on the Apple platform with Apple's own software. Essentially Adobe has halted development of any products for which Apple created a direct competitor. OTOH, Adobe is also creating similar competing products to Apple solutions for the PC platform. Now that Apple has Aperture, Adobe has "Darkroom". Adobe continues to make Photoshop for Mac because Apple has no competing software and they continue with After Effects because Shake is a lot more expensive. So, I guess I haven't figured out if Adobe and Apple really don't like each other, or if they are in kahootz on some level.
The Machinist
Respected Member
Thanks for the clarification AppliedVisual.
It still does seem a bit suspect doesn't it?
It still does seem a bit suspect doesn't it?
The Machinist said:
It's a cost benefit analysis on Adobe's part. The market for Premiere on the Mac wasn't there to make it worth Adobe's effort to fight Apple to port the latest versions, especially since Premiere is by it's nature going to require tighter hardware integration then apps such as Illustrator and has a direct Apple-owned competitor in FCP (as mentioned above).
There are still too many Mac users of After Effects and the other apps for Adobe to abandon them, but the next one that falls will probably be AE, since Shake will have that inherent advantage of communication and partnership with the OS writer (and hardware vendor) which Adobe can't get from Apple but can easily get from MS and the various PC OEMs.
I've heard this from Adobe reps, Adobe software engineers, ProTools reps, Avid reps and Avid hardware and software engineers in various settings. All independently saying pretty much the same thing.
Aperture is no Photoshop (yet) and Apple realizes that for the moment it can't loose it or Illustrator, the users would revolt. But you'll notice that Photoshop runs like crap on the new Intel Macs... I wouldn't be surprised if even the Mac Photoshop team inside Adobe didn't get their hands on any Intel Macs until they were pretty much in retail. Meanwhile Adobe has influence in the development of Windows Vista through MS's developer programs, and direct partnerships with AMD, Intel, HP, whomever they want, all eager to work with them, because unlike Apple, it's not in these companies' interests to work against Adobe.
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And that software would be . . . . . ?AppliedVisual said:
The only thing I can determine is the abandonment of Premiere Mac, which wasn't that big of a loss.
Encore was never offered in a Mac version. Other than that, Apple doesn't offer any direct competition to Adobe.
Aperture is similar to iView Media Pro. Adobe doesn't have a comparable version.
In direct conflict with your statement, Adobe Lightroom is a response to Aperture and is Mac only at this moment. It was announced and released to public beta following the release of Aperture.
AE, Illustrator, PS, and PS Elements are all cross platform.
Motion doesn't compete with AE at all. There is no Adobe counterpart to Shake that I'm aware of.
Other than Premiere, what products are you referring to?
mochouinard
Well-known member
Finally someone agree with me that Apple is even more evil than MS these days. I hate Microsoft... But I hate Apple more (The only thing I like about apple and Mac, is they use Unix backend, and their marketing.
I had a loaned Mac laptop once and I work hard to remove all the useless Mac animations that just slow down the system, wastes time and create useless distraction. Fade in, buncing icons, Window that make waves when you minimize them, all gone (Or as much as I could) Then a Mac user had to use my laptop and he didnt like it, and feel that sucked. Well it is, once you get the blind off, you see that there isn't much left when you remove the GUI.
The things is when I use OS, I do not need and want antialias on my text, I do not want fade in/out, transparent windows, they are useless and distracting. When people see me use a PC, their head is spining because of how fast I move from 1 place to the other, and any useless animation just waste my time.
Anyway, every time I talk to Mac user, and I tell them what I do not like, their only response is : You get used to it.... And what tell me long about how good Apple Marketing is, Even if the GUI isn't that practical, well it look good, and you get used to it.
Im not saying I will never switch to Mac... But I will probably Move to Linux with KDE or Gnome before, my only problems rightnow to switch to linux (I actually like more the Linux KDE/Gnome GUI), is the lack of my favorite applications. I can only hope one day I will get Rid of Microsoft
Back to the subject at hand : FCP for PC, well like some said, in March it will be available for PC, and you could dual boot on your PC with Mac OS X and use FCP on it. But no it wont be supported by Apple for sure.
I had a loaned Mac laptop once and I work hard to remove all the useless Mac animations that just slow down the system, wastes time and create useless distraction. Fade in, buncing icons, Window that make waves when you minimize them, all gone (Or as much as I could) Then a Mac user had to use my laptop and he didnt like it, and feel that sucked. Well it is, once you get the blind off, you see that there isn't much left when you remove the GUI.
The things is when I use OS, I do not need and want antialias on my text, I do not want fade in/out, transparent windows, they are useless and distracting. When people see me use a PC, their head is spining because of how fast I move from 1 place to the other, and any useless animation just waste my time.
Anyway, every time I talk to Mac user, and I tell them what I do not like, their only response is : You get used to it.... And what tell me long about how good Apple Marketing is, Even if the GUI isn't that practical, well it look good, and you get used to it.
Im not saying I will never switch to Mac... But I will probably Move to Linux with KDE or Gnome before, my only problems rightnow to switch to linux (I actually like more the Linux KDE/Gnome GUI), is the lack of my favorite applications. I can only hope one day I will get Rid of Microsoft
Back to the subject at hand : FCP for PC, well like some said, in March it will be available for PC, and you could dual boot on your PC with Mac OS X and use FCP on it. But no it wont be supported by Apple for sure.
Graeme_Nattress
Red Team
Prior to FCP's arrival on the mac from Apple, most Apple based editors used Premiere. It was cheap. Other than that, it was a lot of money for an Avid or Media100.
Premiere 4 was pretty good and pretty stable. Then Adobe released Premiere 5, 5.1, 5.1a, 5.1b and then 5.1c and each was totally unstable and unusable. I remember having to save after each edit and reboot after about 3 or 4 edits it would crash that much. It was an utter disaster. Soon after that FCP came out, and running on the same 3rd party hardware / capture card it was stable and reliable, even though FCP was in no way certified for or developed with that common 3rd party card in mind.
That's why Apple editors jumped to FCP, leaving nobody running Premiere. And then Adobe released Premiere 6 on the mac, and we didn't buy that because that last upgrade to 5 has been a complete waste of money and was never stable.
That's why Adobe left the Apple video market, because they lost the support of users through their own actions, through releaseing Premiere 5 which was an awful upgrade.
Graeme
Premiere 4 was pretty good and pretty stable. Then Adobe released Premiere 5, 5.1, 5.1a, 5.1b and then 5.1c and each was totally unstable and unusable. I remember having to save after each edit and reboot after about 3 or 4 edits it would crash that much. It was an utter disaster. Soon after that FCP came out, and running on the same 3rd party hardware / capture card it was stable and reliable, even though FCP was in no way certified for or developed with that common 3rd party card in mind.
That's why Apple editors jumped to FCP, leaving nobody running Premiere. And then Adobe released Premiere 6 on the mac, and we didn't buy that because that last upgrade to 5 has been a complete waste of money and was never stable.
That's why Adobe left the Apple video market, because they lost the support of users through their own actions, through releaseing Premiere 5 which was an awful upgrade.
Graeme
mochouinard said:
Interestingly, I don't even notice these things, nor do they involve themselves in acquisition, editing, and post production. Nor in DVD Authoring.
What comes to mind is the statement, "you can't see the forest because of the trees."
I'm interested in performance, stability, and ease of use -- all of which I have in OS X.
The things you mention are things that aren't part of my workflow.
But to each their own . . .
AppliedVisual
Active member
David S. said:
I suppose it's a matter of how you look at it. Encore actually did enter the beta stage for OSX, but Adobe canned it when they decided to discontinue Premiere on the Mac. Other than that, Audition, Photoshop Album, PhtoDeluxe, and Premiere Elements aren't offered, but were never developed for Mac to beging with. Adobe also doesn't offer the bundle pricing/packages for several of their products on Mac like they do on Windows, probably due to the lack of Premiere Pro and Encore, but they don't currently offer the Photoshop w/ Macromedia bundle either, and all of that software is available on Mac.
AppliedVisual
Active member
mochouinard said:
You can turn off all the animations and crap, just like you can in Windows. That's a really pointless argument there. The whole Mac vs. PC comparison is very much pointless. Face it, they both suck - each in their own way, but mostly in the same way. In the end a Mac or a PC is just a tool used to get the job done, whether it's editing video, playing games or surfing for porn on the net. I run both platforms here in my workflow and I hate them both equally, so there.
Remember BeOS?
Now there was a platform.
Now there was a platform.
