Audio, the Bastard Child of Video?

Texture

Texture

Well-known member
Looked through about 15 - 20 entries so far...

Fabulous efforts, but alas, not enough contestants have taken their audio as seriously as their video.

I know that for many contestants, it was a struggle just pulling the story, the actors, the lighting, video production and post production together.

In the future, I hope more members will make audio a part of that struggle as well.
 
I agree... audio is so important and so hard (IMO). I worked very hard to try and get the best mix possible, but alas, I am not very good. I keep trying to get better at audio, and someday maybe I'll be able to mix something halfway decent.
 
I would totally agree Texture. I've seen numerous short films all across the web, and in film festivals even, that are totally ruined because of bad audio. Heh, and yeah, like briceman, that's exactly why we tried to focus on making the audio good for our entry. We did ADR and foleyed all the sound effects.
 
I did the best I could. :(

Seriously though, the biggest lesson this fest has taught me so far is that I can't do everything myself. Generally the concensus is that I should stick to scriptwriting and directing. :D

There's a lot to be said in having a good soundguy in your corner.
 
I can't tell you how many theater's I've gotten a refund from and walked out, because the audio sucked.

Growing up on Long Island, when I was 19 or 20 I was an usher at one of the theaters that was blessed with a premier engagement of Woody Allen's, Manhattan.

Woody had a couple of audio technicians come to the theatre just to make sure that the sound systems were of a comensurate quality to compliment his soundtrack (years before the THX standard)

I'll never forget that.

You've all got my greatest sympathies, its expensive to get good audio.

But still, you gotta at least read up on the basics; make sure the 'room tone' doesn't drop in and out in your dialogue mixes; try and boom the actors or rent wireless lavs, etc.

My hats off to those of you who struggled to get it right! It helps seperate the men from the boys.
 
i agree...

to a degree you can get away with crappy video if the audio is great..but not the other way round.

possibly as it could be looked at as arty if the video is lacking , where as if the audio is lacking ..then it just sounds crappy.

the mind is probably more forgiving when it comes to visual over sound.

like u can watch a tiny video on an internet page and if the sound is good = fine.

but have a big video and bad sound... :(
 
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androoow said:
to a degree you can get away with crappy video if the audio is great..but not the other way round.
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Absolutely.
A friend of mine always used to say, "the eyes adjust, but the ears do not"

Very very true.
 
I can't really comment on this from a technical perspective, but I tend to be very concerned with story, character, and plot. I can forgive almost anything if those elements compel me enough. And, unfortunately, I have seen several films so far where the audio was either so inaudible or just so distracting that I could scarcely make out what the story was trying to say, what the characters were like, or where the plot was going. I know this is film, not radio, and we're all alrgley concerned with what this camera is capable of, but it really sucks when an otherwise impressive movie is dragged down. Personally, I'll take even bad ADR over inaudible dialogue any day.
 
Captain KickAss said:
Out of curiosity, which films do you feel had stand out sound quality?
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Will get back to you on this one, as I have much more to watch, but I'm sure that the ones that stand out, will simply be viewed by many of us as simply, 'the good ones.'

See, this is the problem with audio, its invisible and in many respects taken for granted.

As a matter of fact, I'd love to see an overall comparison of salaries of sound mixer/editors compared to video editors working for major studios. Gosh, I'd hope they'd be equal, but...

Anyhow, It takes only 24 frames a second to convince the eye that it is seeing continuous motion, it takes over 40 some-odd thousand snapshots of audio per second, to convince the ear, that it is hearing continuous action. And that's not even near the best quality available. I'm sure you all understand what I'm ranting about.
 
Texture said:
Anyhow, It takes only 24 frames a second to convince the eye that it is seeing continuous motion, it takes over 40 some-odd thousand snapshots of audio per second, to convince the ear, that it is hearing continuous action. And that's not even near the best quality available. I'm sure you all understand what I'm ranting about.
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No doubt. I still remember when I was a kid seeing an episode of Mr. Wizard where he had a child try to exactly match a color sample from a choice of hundreds and he was a couple off. Then he tried to match two frequencies of sound out of hundreds or thousands of possible options and was, again, a couple off. We use sight a lot more than we use our hearing, but that sure doesn't mean it's harder to fool.
 
Take it for what you will, but George Lucas was quoted as saying Sound is 70% of a movie.

Basically if your sound is bad, then unfortunatly it will stand out. Another good example that someone on these forums posted, If you are watching a movie and doing something else (ie..cooking, eating, bla bla bla) and the screen or video flickers for a minute you might not notice. Stop the sound for a second and everyones head turns.

Sound and lighting are probably the two biggest thing that sets a short apart from being amature to professional.
 
Agreed... props to 'We Are Not Alone' for good sound, although I haven't checked out "Odd Squad" yet.

I know that coming from a music/recording background... just about everything I work on I end up usually putting MORE time into the sound than I do the visuals. I helped out with the sci-fest entry "Home Invasion" by doing the soundtrack. And I know that it was an all-encompassing full-time effort that probably gave me quite a few grey hairs... as was the soundtrack for the previous project... and my project before that. I'd better stop doing audio work, b/c I'll end up looking like an old man.

I think it's easy for the development of quality sound/music for shorts like these to take as much time and effort as all the visuals. And people for the most part just don't realize that. This is the "DVX" forum after all. Not the Audio Technica/Sennheiser/etc forum. Generally speaking people here are more concerned about 24p than they are about well-constructed sound. :(

Then again...holding booms and editing audio is such a thankless job, who WOULD want to do it!?!? And if you do a good job, it's not like a viewer will say "that foley is really life-like". A good job (most of the time) means you just don't get noticed.
 
pywl said:
Sound and lighting are probably the two biggest thing that sets a short apart from being amature to professional.
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Don't even get me started about the lighting. Damn, I don't even own a Lowell kit so I'll just seal my mouth with some gaffers tape for now...

hemophilia said:
Then again...holding booms and editing audio is such a thankless job, who WOULD want to do it!?!? And if you do a good job, it's not like a viewer will say "that foley is really life-like". A good job (most of the time) means you just don't get noticed.
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Our mission, is to draw viewers into the very moment that lies on the screen in front of them. To create a moment so powerful, that the mind and all its concerns drift away. Only us know-it-alls should take pause to notice anything outstanding about the art we create. Our viewers, be only bedazzled and filled with a sense of wonder not felt since childhood.

Now, time to watch a few more of these entries.
 
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Hmmm,

I'm starting to think that just a simple extra shotgun mike could have helped a bunch of the contestants. Sennheiser makes lite weight plastic cheapie. I think its mono, not sure. Just stick it on the boot mount of the camera and plug it in when you need to hear more what's in front of you, than what's all around.

(and always have an extra fresh battery on hand and always monitor your audio cause just this one little extra thing that can help so much, can also 'totally screw the pooch')
 
Browse the audio forum when you can. There are a couple pros there and an abundance of information that will help your next shoot.
 
marquee said:
Browse the audio forum when you can. There are a couple pros there and an abundance of information that will help your next shoot.
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I know I'll be there. :) (asking, not advising. heh)
 
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