HVX-200 Europe

alpi69 said:
so $ 5.500 is € 4.637 right now.
14% import duty makes it € 5286 before VAT. hmmmm.....I might go to New York soon.....ahhh let´s be crazy and go for express shipping instead. still only 5350.
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My hvx is costing 6200 Euro with two 4gigs and microphone plus shipping by Fed X, so if 14% were applied that's 868 euro duty plus 21% Vat 1484 = 8552 Euro.
so that would be 2,350 to the government thieves. So, actually for me I think it would be time for a holiday.
And it is grand theft by them, just like dodgy officials in South America robbing you, only the EU officials have their domestic laws to support their theft. Of course it's the poor employed worker who as usual is screwed most as they can't reclaim Vat.
But hey, we know the story, just that nobody participates or gives out about it, so why would anything change.......:embarasse
 
Barra said:
Well Jaume,
It looks like you may be right due to past arrangements BUT perhaps I could counter sue them as their reason and excuse (legal application) for duty is to protect their EU market forces and an NTSC video recorder is not really in competition with EU models in the EU. Europeans will 99% purchase the PAL model. I on the other hand need the NTSC because I don't flock with the pseudo-Irishness buzz and live in the real world without sinister borders - and am making programs for NTSC broadcast with this camera.
My specific product is NTSC video camera recorder imported into a PAL zone so it cannot be justified by the Revenue in their usual way - which I think should and could be tackled and changed by a powerful company such as Panasonic if they were not scared to do so - the VTR excuse is a lame coverup for theft as it is only a sub-feature that will not be used much and does not relate to the high price of the camera due to broadcast quality recording.... I am currently seeking written confirmation from the revenue here on this issue (the theiving :evil: b*****s).
p.s. Jaume as you've stated above correctly the VTR category is 14%, so customs are abusing this sub-feature to rate our HVX as a VTR! Check the legality of that will you?
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Hi Barra:

Don't you think that we already tried?
Please, trust us a bit more. We are not a blind organization.
Customs Authority don't know anything about details of our market. For them is simple, can a camcorder be used as a VTR (it means input video and record it?) If the answer is yes, then no way to escape from 14%.

And in our company we are extremely serious about this issues.
If customs would feel we are cheating them, this would have a huge impact in our reputation in customs. This is a risk we don't want to take.
As company policy, we want to follow law 100%.

I know the story of one manufacturer (I will not disclose the name), that tried to offer it (video input) for a product as option. When customs realized about the "trick", this manufacturer was legally obliged to pay the 100% of the "real" duty for all the imports since the last three years. And it was not few money....

So, please trust us when I say that we are continuously trying to find the best legal way to make our products more affordable to our customers. But we will follow the law by all means.

And don't get wrong, this applies to ALL manufacturers who import products from out of the EU.

In any case, thanks for your comments. This will encourage to keep working on it, based on the law.....

Regards
 
The law? I hate being robbed by those who make the laws

The law? I hate being robbed by those who make the laws

Let me explain EU duty and taxes in this little analogy:

You're walking down the street back to your neighbourhood with your new HVX under your arm.
A group of thugs jump out in front of you and demand over 2,000 euros from you.
You ask them why and they say that's just the way it is, its called duty, your duty to them, and taxes.
They start to pretend that they're actually nice guys protecting the neighbourhood economy, protection money!
The duty they tell you is to protect the business of their brother who also sells the hvx but at a higher price.
Now your confused, and you ask them, well how come he cant sell it for the same price as where I bought it.
Now they look a bit confused, but they tell you well because he has to pay us duty! and other taxes and stuff.
Now you see them clearly as before - THUGS OUT ROBBING on the streets.

That's who customs officials are - THUGS - paid by millions of people who get robbed by them, through mafiosa-style EU governments. Now that's democracy folks when you don't participate and stand up for your rights. The thugs rule!:lipsrseal :lipsrseal :lipsrseal :lipsrseal :lipsrseal
p.s. if Panasonic sell 100,000 hvx in EU and customs get away with classing as VTR at 14% they make an extra 50 million euros by charging an extra 500 euro on each camera package.
 
Why do we need video input on the HVX-200 based on practical and normal use of this camera?

- If we don't really need it as a sub-feature that only increases the end price so dramatically due to the extra duty and subsequent extra vat.

If video input just records standard def to miniDV then surely we don't really need it at all and could save a bundle and promote better sales at a lower retail price.

But maybe there are practical reasons we need video input on this camera?:huh:
 
ic47 said:
When shopping for a dvx100B i stumbled across www.proav.co.uk, where it's sold for GBP 1695,- excluding 17,5% VAT. Also, they're expecting the hvx200 to go for anywhere between GBP 3500,- and 4000,-. Sounds alright, doesn't it? And on the phone they're friendly as your grandparents... Heard of evil ones though, so anyone know anything about this company...?
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ProActive are a great company. I've bought from them online, and I've been to their offices (in Hemel Hemstead - just north of London). The guys are very pleasant, friendly and keen to help with whatever I needed. I'd have no problems in recommending them. :)
 
4,000 GBP is about 7,000 USD, if that's the exTaxes price then I don't see how that's good value for the HVX compared to what US customers get it for exTaxes.:thumbdown
 
Hey Jaume,

Thanks for taking the time to post on this forum, giving us an official answer from Panasonic Europe. We're really looking forward to the HVX200E. :)

Alex.
 
Yeah, Jaume, thanks for the appearance and comments! always appreciated that someone relevant is listening to our gripes and groans.
Hope we can get rid of the standard def video to miniDV so that Customs lose for once, I certainly wont use that feature, probably never use the miniDV at all.
When you dig a little deeper it tends to get a little darker, although it is possible to find surprising little lights in that darkness.... found a cool perspective too which I'm not sharing - a little secret stash that's safe for the highway travels.
 
On this same topic of the HVX-200 European model camera, it is worth mentioning the disparity suffered by the common people as consumers in relation to the elite EU government regimes who will benefit from its sale.
The common law abiding, honest, hardworking Irish National comes under such scrutiny and extortionist financial expenses labelled as duty and taxes, while at the same time, in the same airports, hundreds of thousands of foreign military personel are permitted to pass through exempt of such payments and without any checks or inspections, carrying arms and amunitions of the most deadly kind, to use them for crimes against humanity, in wars deemed by the UN as illegal under international law, against other honest, hardworking, law abiding nationals like us in faraway places.
These warmongers and mass murderers are not even required to fill out temporary importation forms or describe in any way their cargos of mass destruction, which have monetary values of incredible proportions, which fly above our homes daily and which we pass by dangerously with our families while using the same airports.
The sinister transits of these non nationals are actually costing the Irish taxpayer vast sums of money, paid for through other national taxes. So this disparity is worth noting when discussing the topic of us as consumers and manufacturers abiding by the law 100% and paying these regimes their duties and taxes on our goods, on our honest business transactions which are poles apart to their bloody business.
I for one will resent wholeheartedly paying the duty and taxes added by these governments on the HVX-200 camera as sold in Europe. I would suggest that our real DUTY is to change the status quo and protest against their extortionism at every opportunity possible.
Certainly with the new cameras in our hands we can use 'art as a weapon of protest', in the words of Che Guevarra, to make forceful artistic documentaries which will expose the realities of how these inhuman regimes oppress and control us to their bloody benefit.
Things which at first seem unrelated like paying the 'simple' and 'legal' duty and taxes on a new video camera like the HVX in relation to oppressive and deadly state regimes; can be made very relative when examined more deeply, in this instance where the consumer in Europe will pay easily over 200 million Euros into the States' bank accounts, on this one product alone, over the next few years.
This camera and others like it will help independent filmakers produce documentaries of a quality which before they could not afford to ensure that in future their recordings satisfy the broadcast quality demands of national TV stations, and therefore there will be less excuses possible for not airing our productions. Thanks to the efforts of all at Panasonic who are making this technology available now.
 
Hey Alex Leith,
Thanks for your thoughts on proav.co.uk! I had that feeling, but it's nice to hear somebody confirm it.

And Barra, you're right, GBP 3500-4000 is not that sharp a price. I forgot to mention that on the phone, they told me it would go for GBP 3000-3200. That's what i learned of first. So i don't know which is true and which prices are for which (package) deals. I guess it's useless to speculate. Might as well wait until it's really there...
 
Recommended Retail Prices for HVX200

Recommended Retail Prices for HVX200

Dear Gentlemen:

Let me inform you about the Recommended Retail Prices of the HVX200 in Europe:

AG-HVX200E: 5,990 Euros + VAT
Kit 8G: AG-HVX200E + 2 cards of 8GB: 8,500 Euros
4 GB Card alone: 575 Euros.
8 GB Card alone: TBA

Availability: February 2006

In any case, I recomend you to contact your dealer for receiving the right prices for you.

Have a Happy New Year!

Best Regards

Jaume Rey
General Manager
European Sales and Marketing
Panasonic Broadcast Europe
 
Thanks, Jaume. I'm a little surprised by the fuzz the price is generating iN Europe. After all, the price without VAT is hardly above that of the NTSC version, which is a novelty! I never understood why European versions went for significantly higher prices than US versions.

As for VAT: Let's face it. 99% of the HVX200 will go to self employed people or companies, who can all tax deduct their VAT, so it doesnt hurt them.

You are not saying you are buying an 8500 EUR camera for hobby purposes, are you.
 
Jaume Rey said:
Dear Gentlemen:

Let me inform you about the Recommended Retail Prices of the HVX200 in Europe:

AG-HVX200E: 5,990 Euros + VAT
Kit 8G: AG-HVX200E + 2 cards of 8GB: 8,500 Euros
4 GB Card alone: 575 Euros.
8 GB Card alone: TBA

Availability: February 2006

In any case, I recomend you to contact your dealer for receiving the right prices for you.

Have a Happy New Year!

Best Regards

Jaume Rey
General Manager
European Sales and Marketing
Panasonic Broadcast Europe
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Really? I'm so happy :D But, when are you guys officially announcing this? I can't find such info at the panasonic broadcast website. I want to argue this camera to my superiors, and pricing is always an issue. Lots of people have claimed that they had a reliable source stating the price. - I only trust what I can read of http://panasonic-broadcast.com/
 
JPEwert said:
I never understood why European versions went for significantly higher prices than US versions.
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:thumbup:

JPEwert said:
As for VAT: Let's face it. 99% of the HVX200 will go to self employed people or companies, who can all tax deduct their VAT, so it doesnt hurt them.

You are not saying you are buying an 8500 EUR camera for hobby purposes, are you.
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I follow you but...not all the Pro can tax deduct their VAT, OK?!...so, for many PROfessionals it will be an extra cost.
 
8500 instead of the rumoured 10.000 is a nice surprise indeed. that frees money for the P2-store or an extra lensadapter (1.6 in my case). yeah baby yeah.
 
Perhaps I am missing something but why is the kit price so much more. In this case of 2,500 Euros more.

What is in the kit except a couple of cards worth perhaps 1,000 if you buy them on their own.

I would expect a manufacturer to be able to offer a kit at substatially below the indivdual prices.

What am I missing?
 
the 8GB goes for over $ 2000 in the US as a single card. they are still cutting edge and much higher priced as the 4GB cards. you can get 4,3 4GB cards for the 2.500, but you only have to carry around 2 cards, so the bundle looks interesting.
 
Emanuel said:
I follow you but...not all the Pro can tax deduct their VAT, OK?!...so, for many PROfessionals it will be an extra cost.
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Sure they can, any professional in a EU country can deduct VAT /TAX/BTW. Otherwise he is not a professional, and has no VAT account.
 
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