Price?
- Thread starter roxics
- Start date
roxics
Veteran
$9000, you got to be kidding me. Would anyone here serious look into buying one of these at that price? Especially when the HVX200 can be had for $6000 with better recording quality.
$9000 seems way to rediculous of a price for this thing. It should just be a simple replacement of the XL2 at the price the XL2 sells for.
$9000 seems way to rediculous of a price for this thing. It should just be a simple replacement of the XL2 at the price the XL2 sells for.
Luis Caffesse
Admin
roxics said:
This camera isn't a replacement for the XL2, as far as I know Canon is still making XL2s and will continue to sell them, just like the HVX isn't a replacement for the DVX.
Also, the HVX can't be had for $6000 with better recording quality.
For $6000 you can record DV to tape, that's it.
If you want to record HD you'll either need to get the forthcoming firestore (in March by the way), or at least one P2 card. Either way, you're looking at more than $6000. At the end of the day, I think this new XL is pretty well priced given the pricing on HVX.
I'm going to wait for the footage to decide for me.... though the variable frame rates of the HVX are a HUGE advantage for that camera.
..or you could record to a laptop or any desktop pc. you dont have to use firestore or P2 .. you dont even have to use a computer.. you could rent a DVCPRO Hd deck and record to it over firewire if you wanted. so technically you only have to buy the camera, and should be able to record HD somehow.. although perhaps not in the most optimal manner for what youd like to do.. but it some cases its a great setup.
roxics
Veteran
Plus remember this Canon an HDV camera and the HVX is a DVCPRO HD camera. A better codec. Even at $6000 at least you can get the HVX camera if you can't afford the P2 cards yet. $3000 is a big difference for essentially a camera that isn't as good.
But I admit. Canon probably couldn't bring it down to $3500 to replace the XL2. But they could at least bring it down to $5000 or $6000. Which is hopefully what it's street price will be. Still that's out of my price range. It'd spend $3500 max. Filmmaking is a hobby of mine. Isn't HDV supposed to be a consumer level format? At $9000 that's no consumer/prosumer level to me. That's professional. Because only people who make money with their cameras can afford that much for them.
But I admit. Canon probably couldn't bring it down to $3500 to replace the XL2. But they could at least bring it down to $5000 or $6000. Which is hopefully what it's street price will be. Still that's out of my price range. It'd spend $3500 max. Filmmaking is a hobby of mine. Isn't HDV supposed to be a consumer level format? At $9000 that's no consumer/prosumer level to me. That's professional. Because only people who make money with their cameras can afford that much for them.
Robert86
Carbonite Member
With that cost, if you're going to be making a short film or something similar in length, you might as well buy a decent 16mm camera, some film stock and shoot. It would come out with the "true" film look. But then you have to process, telecine and whatever, but you would have to weigh it out economically, see which is more economic.
Digigenic
Well-known member
SquidLips said:
HVX
For tape, the HVX can only record DV, no HDV.
Everything else in its arsenal must be recorded to P2, or out to a DVCPro Deck, an external device like a laptop, or the upcoming Firestore that's optimized for these particular codecs.
XLH1
For tape, the XLH1 can record either DV and HDV.
It can also record out to an HDV optimized firestore device. Then of course there's the option to output uncompressed HD. I'm not sure what all can handle that much data right now, but something will likely be made available in the same form factor as the firestore device.
And someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but can't the XLH1 also record all of the DVCPRO formats to an external device?
Thanks for that. Makes the Canon develop another brownie point then for me.
I looked at some photos of the camera on another web site and did not notice any variable frame rate switches and there to my knowledge (except for a few guesses here) has been no announcement of any.
I admit, I am a little confused about the 30i and 60i whole thing (not a video techy guy yet) so when I say "frame rates" I mean if the camera is able to in the 24F (film like) mode give us variable rates (at 720 or whatever) so we can do some slow/fast motion without relying on After Effects or Final Cut. This is one thing that the HVX will "supposedly" do that could win me one way or another.
I looked at some photos of the camera on another web site and did not notice any variable frame rate switches and there to my knowledge (except for a few guesses here) has been no announcement of any.
I admit, I am a little confused about the 30i and 60i whole thing (not a video techy guy yet) so when I say "frame rates" I mean if the camera is able to in the 24F (film like) mode give us variable rates (at 720 or whatever) so we can do some slow/fast motion without relying on After Effects or Final Cut. This is one thing that the HVX will "supposedly" do that could win me one way or another.
Barry_Green
Moderator
The Canon can record only to tape. Its recording options are:SquidLips said:
1080/60i HDV
1080/24F HDV
1080/30F HDV
480/60i DV
480/24p DV
480/30p DV
The Panasonic records to either P2 or to miniDV tape. Its recording options are:
1080/60i DVCPRO-HD
1080/24P DVCPRO-HD
1080/30P DVCPRO-HD
720/4P DVCPRO-HD
720/24P DVCPRO-HD
720/60P DVCPRO-HD
720/Variable Frame Rates in DVCPRO-HD (as yet undisclosed rates)
480/60i DVCPRO50
480/30P DVCPRO50
480/24P DVCPRO50
480/60i DV
480/24P DV
480/30P DV
All the HVX modes can be recorded to P2 cards, and the DV modes can also be recorded to tape.
Both cameras have other outputs that could be hooked up to external recorders; both offer analog component output and firewire, and the Canon additionally offers HD-SDI. The HVX can output any of its modes via firewire; the Canon can only output 1080i/HDV and 480/DV out its firewire port.
Well, yeah -- being able to record DVCPRO-HD instead of HDV is a huge bonus for the HVX. I don't think there's much buzz about the Canon related to its recording capability; I think most people who are excited about it seem to be jazzed about the HD-SDI output. But that's not a recording method; as a recorder the Canon is strictly HDV/DV, and the Panasonic offers the far superior DVCPRO-HD recording method, as well as DV, and the superb DVCPRO50 mode.
Barry_Green
Moderator
There is no variable frame rate capability on the Canon, beyond what we already know: "24F", "30F", and 60i.SquidLips said:
The HVX will do actual legitimate variable frame rates, ranging between 4 and 60 frames per second. AFAIK the exact frame rates have not been disclosed yet; people have mentioned there being something like a dozen different selectable frame rates but as far as I know nothing like that has been officially confirmed by Panasonic.
jaegersing
Well-known member
Barry_Green said:
Barry, is that correct about the 24p and 30p in DV format? I read somewhere that Canon couldn't technically call the 24F stuff 24p because the CCDs are interlaced and not progressive. If this is so, how come it doesn't apply to DV mode? Presumably they are the same CCDs?
Richard Hunter
Barry_Green
Moderator
Ah, perhaps you have a point there -- I shall have to double-check on that!
Barry_Green
Moderator
There's no way the street price will fall that low, at least not for a long while. Unless the camera just doesn't sell... basically, the more in-demand a product is, the higher the price will be. That's just basic economics. B&H apparently believes that the XL H1 will sell at or near list price for its first five months. After that, we'll see.
Walter_Graff
Carbonite Member
roxics said:
Except the Canon is not in competition with the Panasonic camera. Two different cameras for two different market sectors, hence the price difference.