Writer's Guild Going on Strike

[Doug Jensen]

Isn't that making the assumption that those striking are just not skilled enough to cut it? Seems kind of harsh to me.

Absolutely not. Everyone has the right to fight for a bigger share of the pie. And if a group of people want to band together and call themselves a union and fight together, that is also thier right. My earlier comments were in reference to the whiny, hypocritical, blog that Doug Bee copy and pasted. I have no idea if Mr. Alcott is a talented writer or not because I've never seen his work, but his blog shows he really isn't cut out for freelancing. His last IMDB credit was 2014. Enough said.

 

[Doug Jensen]

Personally I never saw any major disadvantage to unions.

Really? The problem with unions is that it is equally about keeping non-members out of the trenches. It's one thing if a bunch of people want to join forces and say we're going to bargain collectively -- but they don't stop there. They also want to keep other people who choose not to join their club from working in the same field as they do. Are you good with that?

PEarning more by making others suffer does not..

But that's exactly what unions do when non-members (who are otherwise fully qualified) are excluded from work.

You can't call something bad writing just because you do not agree with the subject or theme. .

Hmm, did I say soemthing that implied I did? Please don't put words in my mouth or imply my political biases influence me in the same way yours seem to influence you. The lady doth protest too much.

 

[CharlesPapert]

The problem with unions is that it is equally about keeping non-members out of the trenches. It's one thing if a bunch of people want to join forces and say we're going to bargain collectively -- but they don't stop there. They also want to keep other people who choose not to join their club from working in the same field as they do.

To play devil's advocate--how could it possibly work if an employer had the choice of hiring between union and non-union workers for the same job? They would of course select the non-union workers, who they could pay less, work harder and longer and create any work rules they chose to on a given job. The only way for the system to function is if the employer is under contract to exclusively hire from the union pool. The film industry is one where much of the time there are far more workers than positions available, and the workers are generally hungry and enthusiastic for work, so the employers have the advantage and thus more incentive in non-union situations to push the limits on work conditions (compared to other industries that have a hard time holding onto employees, so they are motivated to not have them quit because of working conditions). That is not to say that all non-union work in the camera world is abusive. I've done many jobs that adhere to many of the union rules and regulations. But, that's because there is a precedent in place because of the unions.

As regards IATSE, it is fairly unusual in that members are also allowed to work on non-union jobs which is not the case with SAG, DGA or WGA. There is incentive to organize those jobs, but it is not looked down upon as they understand that we are generally freelance workers and thus need to take whatever jobs come our way.

That all said, I'm hardly a union chest-thumper and could certainly voice complaints about the way certain things are handled...

 

[CharlesPapert]

Charles, I always appreciate your comments. And I would say you're making my point that every freelancer or small production company faces a lot of hoops that have to be jumped through in order to get approvals, get hired, and stay busy. Yes, each trade has a little different set of hoops they have to navigate, but ultimately it comes down to pretty much the same thing. Some people are better cut out for that kind of existence than others. You are one of them. I am one of them. Run&Gun and others on this forum know how to navigate those wasters, too. But those who aren't, it would be better to take a staff job someplace. And I'm not saying there is anything wrong with a staff job, especially if someone just wants to focus more on doing the actual work of that trade. Different paths for different people.

That's certainly fair. I'm not super sure that the matter is so much about freelance vs staff though. It's a little complicated because it sounds like the distinction we are making is that a staff job is one that is full-time and continuous, e.g. working in an office year round. In the industry, staff writing jobs are still relatively short term, for a given season of television or for x number of drafts of a feature, and without longterm contracts, so it's not really the same thing?

 

[Doug Bee]

It’s not just jumping though some hoops to get approved though is it?

The writer whose story I posted about who did mention he had left the industry and probably hasn’t heard of you either was saying they as much as do the entire job of writing the whole movie on spec in the hope they get paid. They have to fully do the job under the pretentious term of development.

That’s quite different to trying to get approval, having an interview or bidding on a job. This is working on something for 12+ months and as much as doing the entire job and then not getting paid. Hey that’s show biz right?

I only posted it because I get the sense few here actually know anyone that’s in the WGA and on strike right now so we are viewing things at a distance and without insight. Doug are any of your colleagues on strike? Have you spoken to them about these issues?

I do know a lot of writers that are on strike now. One is a Showrunner who’s on a 150million deal with a major studio and others are just junior writers barely making enough to live.

All of them are pissed off.

And it seems to be an open secret that the streamers are going to now wait for 8 weeks because that’s the point they can call on force majeure clauses for their expensive pay or play deals that they want out of. This is a great way for them to clear the decks and fire some expensive people. They’re all cost cutting right now. This is a great way to end contracts without penalty.

All my work has stopped now because of the strike. I support and stand with the WGA though because these issues affect all of using narrative work.

 

[ahalpert]

That all said, I'm hardly a union chest-thumper and could certainly voice complaints about the way certain things are handled...

What, like the mafia connections?

I've always been under the impression, as you alluded to, that even non-union folks benefit from union negotiations via improved pay and working conditions.

By the way, have you stopped having so many Fraturdays since the IATSE strike or are those still happening?

 

[ahalpert]

And sometimes the Person Who Can Say Yes says "I like it, but I have some notes," and the screenwriter, once again, has a choice to make. They've come this far, they've spent a year and a half on the project, all without pay, but here they are with the Person Who Can Say Yes and the Person Who Can Say Yes has not said "No." The big paycheck is dangling in front of them, what is the screenwriter supposed to say?

The screenwriter might go to their representatives and say "What am I supposed to do, I can't pay rent and I've been working on this project for a year and a half and they're not paying me anything, and the screenwriter's representatives will say "Do the extra work for free," because, here's a secret, the screenwriter's representatives don't represent the screenwriter, they represent the Person Who Can Say Yes. Why? Because the People Who Can Say Yes control the entire Hollywood economy, and if an agent or manager demands something from them, the People Who Can Say Yes won't hire that person's clients anymore.

Anyway, that's just one tiny aspect of what the WGA is up against in this strike, and it was my day-to-day reality for 25 years.

I found this post entertaining. And what it really highlights is that when people say, "What are writers complaining about? Look at their base pay!!!" You need to understand that they spend an awful lot of time working for free and that when they hit a big payday, that money is going to need to cover them through lean times. Maybe there are some rockstars who are constantly working and making way above guild minimums. But if everyone were a rockstar, nobody would need a guild.

 

[Doug Bee]

By the way, have you stopped having so many Fraturdays since the IATSE strike or are those still happening?

It has certainly stopped them on the shows I’ve worked on.

And it has stopped the stupid continuous hours day where you used to work the entire 12 hour day without a meal break and they would just pay a very tiny meal penalty.

 

[ahalpert]

In the US media production environment the unions are powerful because they are tied to health care and pensions, and to a lessor degree, better overall pay.\]

Is this still true in the age of Obamacare? You can buy insurance as an individual now without getting totally gouged and you will even get subsidies if your income is below a certain threshold.

Regarding pensions, if you're self-employed you can set up your own 401k and enjoy a much higher maximum contribution limit than with a traditional IRA. (Are screenwriters w2 or 1099 employees? I'm assuming they get 1099s...)

 

[Paul F]

Is this still true in the age of Obamacare? You can buy insurance as an individual now without getting totally gouged and you will even get subsidies if your income is below a certain threshold.

Not at all. At least when I needed it. I had 2 choices, Obamacare or my company's COBRA.Obamacare, for the Silver level (you don't want Bronze and you can't afford the Gold level), it was over $1200/month for one person. The COBRA insurance, which costs 105% of actual cost by law, was $780. So COBRA offered me far better insurance for much less.

 

[CharlesPapert]

What, like the mafia connections?

I've always been under the impression, as you alluded to, that even non-union folks benefit from union negotiations via improved pay and working conditions.

By the way, have you stopped having so many Fraturdays since the IATSE strike or are those still happening?

There was no IATSE strike. 90% of the membership voted, and the results were 98% in favor of a strike. Yet, due to a delegate system similar to the electoral college, no strike was called for and the offer on the table was accepted. We absolutely should have struck, it was the best moment to do so in recent years while Covid had momentarily leveled the playing field in terms of health and safety on set.

I don't generally work on shows that have Fraturdays (it's more rare in comedy) but from what I've heard from my friends who do, things are essentially back the way they were pre-Covid in terms of long hours. Not sure about the overnights and short weekend turnarounds. The rule of thumb is to avoid shows that involve zombies, ghosts, etc...!

 

[Paul F]

To clarify the health care costs, if you are below about $60K income, then the tax credits come into effect and then yes, Obamacare becomes very affordable. If you have kids, you pay a pittance and it is almost free if you are below the threshold.. (2016 information).

 

[Doug Bee]

Is this still true in the age of Obamacare? You can buy insurance as an individual now without getting totally gouged and you will even get subsidies if your income is below a certain threshold.

Regarding pensions, if you're self-employed you can set up your own 401k and enjoy a much higher maximum contribution limit than with a traditional IRA. (Are screenwriters w2 or 1099 employees? I'm assuming they get 1099s...)

My wife is Australian.

Everyone gets healthcare. Everyone. Even me if I am just visiting and something goes down.

It doesn’t matter if you are employed or not. She was the one who pointed out to me that healthcare in the US is tied to your job and employment.

Pharmaceuticals too. Once you spend $1500 a year you don’t pay any more.

I have great insurance tied to Local 600. But I have to work 400 hours every 6 months to qualify. If the strike goes on for long enough I would loose my healthcare.

I will add that Australias universal health does not cover dental which I found out last time I was there but still, basically everything else is.

So when I work with local Australian crew they tell me that union membership in media there is very low. None of the crew were in the union. And it’s basically because there isn’t much for the union to do there because a lot of stuff is already regulated or mandated. The union there has more to do with lobbying for policy change rather than individual member protections.

 

[Thomas Smet]

With all due respect, YOU are the one who is constantly injecting politics into the discussion and blaming bad reviews on political bias or bigotry. I find that to be insulting to those of us who have certain expectations of quality in the programs we watch regardless of the casting decisions or other choices that YOU think may be disturbing to others.

I never said you do that. I said I see a lot of that. Do you deny the fact that happens with other people? I see it on a daily basis man. I'm stating what I see and how it's directed at writers. We are discussing the writers strike. I'm not I injecting politics. It's already there if you want to accept it or not. Everything we touch and do has some political aspect to it. Both sides of the coin have carefully crafted the narrative of the views we both follow to make sure our opinions are formed around a certain leaning. Our society has been well groomed. I can admit that, others can admit that.

Absolutely 100% not every critique is about a political topic. I also said I can respect a thoughtful critique even if I do not agree with it. What I cannot accept however is a one sentence critique calling somethign bad writing without nothing to back up that opinion. Thats not an opinion man. Thats a recycled talking point.

 

[Thomas Smet]

Really? The problem with unions is that it is equally about keeping non-members out of the trenches. It's one thing if a bunch of people want to join forces and say we're going to bargain collectively -- but they don't stop there. They also want to keep other people who choose not to join their club from working in the same field as they do. Are you good with that?


But that's exactly what unions do when non-members (who are otherwise fully qualified) are excluded from work.



Hmm, did I say soemthing that implied I did? Please don't put words in my mouth or imply my political biases influence me in the same way yours seem to influence you. The lady doth protest too much.

I'm not putting words in your mouth. I'm talking about those that do.

Part of the concept of a union is they all stick together. Working outside of that union diminishes the power of that union. If a union has 50 member and non union has 500 people which do you think suddenly has more bargaining power? The non union members. Forcing joining the unions is to keep them prominent and give them the negotiating power they need. Thats kind of the entire point. Create a force its difficult to do without hence the writers strike and how it may actually work for them. If a majority of writers were not on strike and not part of the union the studios would just laugh and tell them to have a good life. They wouldn't even be considering a strike at this point because it would impossible and go nowhere.

That is precisely why the guilds try to keep all jobs connected to those guilds. So they have the negotiating power they need.

This is why Hollywood is trying really hard to not let the VFX unionize. Right now they can be exploited and they have zero power. They have no collective voice but hey they have the freedom of not joining a union so there you go. Are they really better off because of that? Knowing the pain that industry has been though for decades I would say absolutely not. This myth of sticking it to the unions and going it alone rarely helps anybody. The VFX talent will continue to be tossed around like expendable live stock and tossed away like garbage. The only way a VFX guild will work is if they all agree to it and join. The more outsiders willing to buck the union the less negotiating power the union will have.

Hey I don't want to have to have unions either but whats the alternative here? We either do nothing at all and end up like the VFX industry, have unions or a very regulated federal system. I don't think the everyone fending for themselves ever really works out well for anybody. The annoyance of being part of a union is minuscule compared to the alternative.

 

[Run&Gun]

I don't generally work on shows that have Fraturdays (it's more rare in comedy) but from what I've heard from my friends who do, things are essentially back the way they were pre-Covid in terms of long hours. Not sure about the overnights and short weekend turnarounds. The rule of thumb is to avoid shows that involve zombies, ghosts, etc...!

The first Steadicam workshop that I attended, one of the instructors (a pretty heavy hitter that you know) said to never work on anything with "night" in the title.

 

[CharlesPapert]

The first Steadicam workshop that I attended, one of the instructors (a pretty heavy hitter that you know) said to never work on anything with "night" in the title.

Ha! Yep, I think I remember that nugget.

Shooting primarily comedy has its ups and downs--the upside for me is that all of my shows have been shot in LA, and with relatively normal hours (no-one is funny at 4:30 a.m. on a Friday).

Now you have me thinking about some of the old pearls of wisdom from the generation of Steadicam operators before me...none more colorful than Ted Churchill:

https://vimeo.com/215639845

 

[cpreston]

I've always considered unions in the film industry to be more gate keeping institutions than anything else. The desire to be a writer/actor/director/cinematographer/G&E is much higher than the actual demand from the studios, so part of the way that unions keep pay high is keeping down the supply of labor for those jobs. Don't let people in until they've "proven" themselves. How many other unions work that way?

The studios could easily find scabs for all of the writers currently on strike. Or they could just use AI. The fact that the union is trying to get a ban on AI kind of proves the theory on gate keeping.

I'm not against unions or these unions in particular. It's good work if you can get it. I just find it weird that all of the industry and media publications I see are only framing this as "poor, lowly writers are fighting back against the greed of the CEO's of the studios". It isn't even the wrong framing. It just seems to lack any nuance at all. I think there is a bit of a panic among the creative unions that they are losing all of their leverage and writers are recognizing that they might be about to lose all of their protection, including the gate keeping. It's also weird that any nuanced discussion I do hear does manage to bring up the fact that the studios are almost guaranteed to keep this going until they can abandon their old contracts. It will be interesting to see if the strike ultimately ends up hurting the union.

 

[Run&Gun]

Ha! Yep, I think I remember that nugget.

Shooting primarily comedy has its ups and downs--the upside for me is that all of my shows have been shot in LA, and with relatively normal hours (no-one is funny at 4:30 a.m. on a Friday).

Now you have me thinking about some of the old pearls of wisdom from the generation of Steadicam operators before me...none more colorful than Ted Churchill:

https://vimeo.com/215639845

From some of the videos I've seen of him, he looked like a really cool guy that you'd love to go have a beer with.

 

[DLD]

PS I called you a whiner because when the people you criticize do the thing you said they should do and you still complain, then you're just being a Whiney McWhinerstein

PPS if you tune into Newsmax you can enjoy an endless commentary about how Carlson was unfairly dismissed

A) I watch Newsmax as often as I watch the View.

B) Most importantly. The Writer's Union is basically running a scam on its members. What it will "achieve" on paper has no bearings to reality, regardless of what it claims. And here's why.

Let's compare WGA with the NFLPA, both heterogeneous labor conglomerates.

NFLPA and the league agreed on - the minimum wage, the total salary amount (aka the salary cap, which can be temporarily exceeded), the number of total jobs (~ 53 per team x 32 teams) guarantee, a anti-bankruptcy/cancellation guarantee. Furthermore, the NFLPA and the players know how much each player makes. And player agents are limited to a ~ 3% commission rate, not 10%.

By comparison, WGA only sets minimums. It doesn't control the total financial outlay, it doesn't control the extent or guarantee of the contracts, it doesn't control the fate of the programs employing its writers. Which means that, if you're working for a Late, Late Show and it gets cancelled, every writer on the staff get zilch, zip, nada. Minimums don't matter if you ain't got a job and studios and streamers retain one hundred percent control over the employment. The residuals don't amount to much unless a writer owns a portion of the show and these days only the Chuck Lorre and Ryan Murphy types do and even that is not as certain during the era of streaming.

Meaning that it's all for show. Which, when you think about it, fits the genre.

Side note - when I lived in LA, I met a number of actors, writers, etc. From their accounts, many of the bosses of the era are not nice people. They came up through the creative, not corporate system. There's plenty of on the job drug and alcohol abuse and a lack of the labor rule observance. Larry David described it in an episode of Seinfeld where George quits and then returns, as if nothing happened. That's what happened to Larry, when he was working on SNL. He was told that writers had to stay overnight. He said he wouldn't and left. But the fact that Lorne Michael had the power to force 30+ hours workdays shows show little importance the union has. And, if you knew what went on on the set of Roseanne, you'd run screaming. But not to the WGA, because it didn't give a rat's behind.