NAB 2023 Rumors & Wishes
- Thread starter Zack Birlew
- Start date
DustinSchmidt
Well-known member
Ha, this ^ !
I don't need a new camera. But I do like to see what's new to the market and I like to be surprised occasionally.
I **need** an RF mount cine camera that has the same AF as the EOS R series.
How else am I going to keep perfect focus in my cat videos? :tongue:
In August of 2012, Canon simultaneously announced C100 ($8,000) and C500 ($30,000). It already had C300 ($16,000) that was announced a year earlier and began to appear on store shelves early in 2012. (notice the double pricing structure from 100 to 300 and almost that to 500). Nowadays, Canon is locked into the pricing structure not only with itself but with Sony as well (since Fuji, Panasonic and Nikon don't make cinema style cameras).
Sony FX3 is $3,900, FX6 is $6,000 and FX9 is $11,000. Canon then can go $2,500-$5,000-$10,000, which would make for nice round numbers and fill in the price gaps. Or Sony can lower its prices downward. FX9 has been around for three years, FX6 for over two and FX3 for two. A lot of gear has been released since then.
Sony FX3 is $3,900, FX6 is $6,000 and FX9 is $11,000. Canon then can go $2,500-$5,000-$10,000, which would make for nice round numbers and fill in the price gaps. Or Sony can lower its prices downward. FX9 has been around for three years, FX6 for over two and FX3 for two. A lot of gear has been released since then.
EVA1 is 5 1/2 years old. By this point, Panasonic is just clearing its inventory.
Sony's supposed to be planning to release several new cameras, from APS-C to the updated A-9 to ... some other awesome stuff. Some might even come out before Cinegear. Or, at least, announced before it.
Surely, Canon must have an answer in full frame, where EOS R and R6 are long in the tooth. Nikon Z8 has also been bandied about a long time.
Surely, Canon must have an answer in full frame, where EOS R and R6 are long in the tooth. Nikon Z8 has also been bandied about a long time.
Zack Birlew
Veteran
Copied from my NAB 2023 REDUser post, also thinking Cinegear may be more likely announcement event, hopefully.
Post:
Well, after attending, it turns out to be a “nothing” year. Blackmagic Design leaves the show with the best camera once again and at least there was a couple of updates, the URSA 12K OLPF, the new OLPF serving as a major knock to the nitpicking about aliasing and moire in certain particular “every now and then” shots (as well as being a slight pixel softener for virtual productions with high density pixel screens) and the biggest update to it was the Netflix approval!
Anybody we asked about 8K gave the same excuse we’ve heard for years since RED and Blackmagic started doing 6K and 8K+, “it’s just a lot of data for customers”. For goodness sake, it’s not like there aren’t lower resolution options on these cameras from 4K to HD so lower end customers can build up to maximizing their equipment. Don’t stall progress and hamper an entire industry for no reason!
One of the strangest conversations was at Sony about night vision. They said they knew it just wasn’t around as an option much anymore and that “if we wanted that look we can crank up the ISO and throw a green look filter over it.” I look at various auction sites for all kinds of stuff and the one thing I notice is that people pay BIG money for night vision equipment, even if it’s older models, there is clearly a market for more night vision products and high ISO video is not infrared night vision.
The key word we kept hearing around the convention was “niche”. 8K+ was “niche”, medium format was “niche”, even full frame is apparently “niche”. Now, since the lockdowns of 2020, there may have been a chip shortage for a few months and maybe there was a situation with overseas shipping a bit too along the way but this is 2023, more than enough time in three years to get a new model out or even if products could be announced for Fall availability, but to say anything beyond what is currently available is “niche” is just insulting. My cell phone has 8K video, my next TV is going to be 8K, my next computer monitor and grading monitor are going to be 8K, videogames and graphics cards are embracing 8K, and various graphics and stock footage for video and VFX are being made for 8K now. Where are the next gen 8K cameras?
As far as lighting and other things go, there were some nice new additions, the coolest being the new Zhiyun Molus X100, all kinds of uses for that kind of light, also there were lots of interesting tube light and mini tube lights, most RGB, and I can see that lighting is definitely seeing some great innovation and it hurts my wallet to think about what a light kit will look like in the coming years.
Other than that, I just didn’t see much new of anything, just firmware updates and maybe a slightly revised model of one thing or another. If anything, this show was really great for lenses and seeing them in person, Laowa has some winners with their Proteus 2x anamorphics which were on display with a Sony F65 as the test camera, very tasteful choice, and such lovely flares! Also nice for RED was that Komodo was seemingly the demo camera of choice around the show.
All I can say is that next year’s NAB has to have some major developments as this year was a stretch too far, a lot of what was on display felt and actually was O-L-D and the lack of progress is astoundingly boring. Until then, what is great today is going to be great tomorrow, we have 8K+ solutions like the Canon R5C, Nikon Z9, and the URSA 12K which came out on top this year in a big way and RED still has their 6K and 8K options. The Sony Venice 2 looked really strong but with the URSA 12K having the OLPF and now Netflix approval, it’s making a much more compelling option as a filmmaker, especially if paired with a smaller R5C or Z9 to go with it as a gimbal or action camera. In my case there’s still time for something new, my first feature is almost done with post so the next movie is at least a year or so away so we’ll see what’s available then.
Post:
Well, after attending, it turns out to be a “nothing” year. Blackmagic Design leaves the show with the best camera once again and at least there was a couple of updates, the URSA 12K OLPF, the new OLPF serving as a major knock to the nitpicking about aliasing and moire in certain particular “every now and then” shots (as well as being a slight pixel softener for virtual productions with high density pixel screens) and the biggest update to it was the Netflix approval!
Anybody we asked about 8K gave the same excuse we’ve heard for years since RED and Blackmagic started doing 6K and 8K+, “it’s just a lot of data for customers”. For goodness sake, it’s not like there aren’t lower resolution options on these cameras from 4K to HD so lower end customers can build up to maximizing their equipment. Don’t stall progress and hamper an entire industry for no reason!
One of the strangest conversations was at Sony about night vision. They said they knew it just wasn’t around as an option much anymore and that “if we wanted that look we can crank up the ISO and throw a green look filter over it.” I look at various auction sites for all kinds of stuff and the one thing I notice is that people pay BIG money for night vision equipment, even if it’s older models, there is clearly a market for more night vision products and high ISO video is not infrared night vision.
The key word we kept hearing around the convention was “niche”. 8K+ was “niche”, medium format was “niche”, even full frame is apparently “niche”. Now, since the lockdowns of 2020, there may have been a chip shortage for a few months and maybe there was a situation with overseas shipping a bit too along the way but this is 2023, more than enough time in three years to get a new model out or even if products could be announced for Fall availability, but to say anything beyond what is currently available is “niche” is just insulting. My cell phone has 8K video, my next TV is going to be 8K, my next computer monitor and grading monitor are going to be 8K, videogames and graphics cards are embracing 8K, and various graphics and stock footage for video and VFX are being made for 8K now. Where are the next gen 8K cameras?
As far as lighting and other things go, there were some nice new additions, the coolest being the new Zhiyun Molus X100, all kinds of uses for that kind of light, also there were lots of interesting tube light and mini tube lights, most RGB, and I can see that lighting is definitely seeing some great innovation and it hurts my wallet to think about what a light kit will look like in the coming years.
Other than that, I just didn’t see much new of anything, just firmware updates and maybe a slightly revised model of one thing or another. If anything, this show was really great for lenses and seeing them in person, Laowa has some winners with their Proteus 2x anamorphics which were on display with a Sony F65 as the test camera, very tasteful choice, and such lovely flares! Also nice for RED was that Komodo was seemingly the demo camera of choice around the show.
All I can say is that next year’s NAB has to have some major developments as this year was a stretch too far, a lot of what was on display felt and actually was O-L-D and the lack of progress is astoundingly boring. Until then, what is great today is going to be great tomorrow, we have 8K+ solutions like the Canon R5C, Nikon Z9, and the URSA 12K which came out on top this year in a big way and RED still has their 6K and 8K options. The Sony Venice 2 looked really strong but with the URSA 12K having the OLPF and now Netflix approval, it’s making a much more compelling option as a filmmaker, especially if paired with a smaller R5C or Z9 to go with it as a gimbal or action camera. In my case there’s still time for something new, my first feature is almost done with post so the next movie is at least a year or so away so we’ll see what’s available then.
Run&Gun
Veteran
My gut tells me Panasonic is out of the mid-to-high end Cine market. The original tape VariCam was released in 2001 and followed by the updated “H” model(new sensor and some internal tweaks) in 2005. Three years later, they released two P2 versions in 2008: the 2700(720p) and 3700(1080p). Then in 2014, the 4K s35 sensor V35 was released at NAB, along with the 2/3” 1080p HS variant. The LT and Pure variants dropped in 2016, but the last major VariCam release was nine years ago. Looking at their track record for releases, it’s probably pretty safe to say they’re out…
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morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Does it really matter - I ws watching a YT video the other day about keeping current.
Truth is ive been shooting mainly with a 50 1.8 at 2 for a hundred years and it still looks like I want.
I've wanted a light that can fight the sun and now the ap600 basically brings that.
Aart from HFR and super functional AF really im hapyy.
(apart from micro hdmi and all the fvcketry)
CharlesPapert
Director of Photography
There is really no cinema division operating at Panasonic at this point. The Lumix division is going strong, and they may push their top of the line in the next few years by adding a box camera that can be outfitted as a full cine camera, but it's pretty clear the Varicam badge is not carrying forward.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
That BGH1
All kitted for remote operation. ethernet, protocols whatever. But no controllable ND.
So this camera is useless as a remote camera - as a live events producer I would not buy 10.
When your execs are signing that off.. you are going bust.
All kitted for remote operation. ethernet, protocols whatever. But no controllable ND.
So this camera is useless as a remote camera - as a live events producer I would not buy 10.
When your execs are signing that off.. you are going bust.
Run&Gun
Veteran
Unfortunately, the writing was on the wall years ago. It started way back when the broadcast division (which included the Vari's) was put under the umbrella of the... laptop(!) division. It's a shame, as (all generations of) the cameras have always produced lovely images.
Run&Gun
Veteran
My .02. Today, there should not be a purpose built motion (video/cine) camera made without internal ND, in at least the basic configuration of CLEAR, 2, 4, 6.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
I do agree. But if a camera is designed to be over a stage, behind the goal, and controlled from a desk by a cable (or the IOT) then it is not a functional device without nd.
An alexa can call the second a/c with a filter and a $6g mattebox, an a7s you can have a green pola in your pocket with your chocolate.
An alexa can call the second a/c with a filter and a $6g mattebox, an a7s you can have a green pola in your pocket with your chocolate.
Run&Gun
Veteran
It's nice that several Alexa's have (motorized) internal ND.
Red only needs to stay a small step ahead of the Japanese (or the Germans, for that matter) on specs. If neither Canon or Sony has a professional 8K camera, there's no imperative for Red to go 10K/12K.
Meanwhile, Samsung released a smartphone with a 200 MPX main camera and with a 30X (telescopic+ digital) zoom. In one body. For $1,200.
The highest res on cartel's full frame is 61 MPX (A7RV) and 102 MPX (GFX 100) on medium format. (but they do have a multiple shot pixel shift).
NorBro
Major Contributor
Have to think about 8K reasonably as, both, a consumer and businessperson.
Phones and TVs and monitors, which appeal to billions, are throwaway items that need to be racing for those specifications, especially while having legit competition.
Video games do and will embrace 8K - but very slowly and not with everyone for a while. (There are thousands of incredible games from small studios who would not be able to make their games in 8K yet, if ever. And graphics cards might as well offer the power if it's available to handle 4K/60p and other demanding tasks.)
We already have a few 8K mirrorless' and won't see anymore until anyone from Japan has something ready and is ready to launch it so they can all do it within the same short amount of time.
Besides, for cinema cameras, there is really only Sony and Canon. Blackmagic's days of camera innovation appear done, and Z CAM and Kinefinity might be thinking about their own financial numbers and not resolution numbers to see if they would like to continue making cameras. (Not implying they might not for any reason but making cameras is a wildly different type of business than making any of the other products above.)
Phones and TVs and monitors, which appeal to billions, are throwaway items that need to be racing for those specifications, especially while having legit competition.
Video games do and will embrace 8K - but very slowly and not with everyone for a while. (There are thousands of incredible games from small studios who would not be able to make their games in 8K yet, if ever. And graphics cards might as well offer the power if it's available to handle 4K/60p and other demanding tasks.)
We already have a few 8K mirrorless' and won't see anymore until anyone from Japan has something ready and is ready to launch it so they can all do it within the same short amount of time.
Besides, for cinema cameras, there is really only Sony and Canon. Blackmagic's days of camera innovation appear done, and Z CAM and Kinefinity might be thinking about their own financial numbers and not resolution numbers to see if they would like to continue making cameras. (Not implying they might not for any reason but making cameras is a wildly different type of business than making any of the other products above.)