Is Canon getting ready to release new cinema camera/s? Big C200 Price reduction

[Clermond]

CVP announced a price drop for 1st of March
https://cvp.com/catalogue/tag/canonc500mar23

the note with the price was in an email said a guy in the FB group

 

[Liam Hall]

I had that email from both CVP and ProAV. I considered selling my C500MKII in January knowing something like this was likely to happen, but I need it and there is no alternative for me on the market. Oh well, never mind, grr, *kicks cat...

 

[cpreston]

Canon always does a massive price drop a few years after release. Or they just abandon them like the C700 or XF705. It does make it seem like they might announce some new products this Spring, though.

 

[Clermond]

In December I was thinking about a C500ii as an A-Cam to my C300iii or a C70 as a B-Cam. Due to some family issues I had to focus on other things, Now it's probably worth waiting for some weeks or months. The price drop will affect the value once you sell the camera but as long as you use it has still a high value.

 

[Run&Gun]

The price drop will affect the value once you sell the camera but as long as you use it has still a high value.

Yep. The market I mostly serve, price cuts/rental rates on cameras/gear doesn't mean squat in regards to what I get paid from the client. I have one, in particular, that I make over $2K a day with an almost 15 year old camera that is all but worthless on the used market(I've seen working copies as low as $1K, recently).

 

[DLD]

Canon always does a massive price drop a few years after release...

All "consumer" photo-video companies do that. The difference is the size of the drop and its timing. Sony and Panasonic, generally speaking, slide theirs downward slowly, with the remaining inventory, existing market competition and the potential replacements playing a major role. With C300 MKIII and C500 MKII, there indeed seems to be something brewing. Presumably from Canon. But Sony might be ready to release a replacement for FX-6 and FX-9 too.

 

[norway]

Yep. The market I mostly serve, price cuts/rental rates on cameras/gear doesn't mean squat in regards to what I get paid from the client. I have one, in particular, that I make over $2K a day with an almost 15 year old camera that is all but worthless on the used market(I've seen working copies as low as $1K, recently).

Spill the beans/tea. What’s this 15 year old camera? :2vrolijk_08:

 

[Andy9]

All "consumer" photo-video companies do that. The difference is the size of the drop and its timing. Sony and Panasonic, generally speaking, slide theirs downward slowly, with the remaining inventory, existing market competition and the potential replacements playing a major role. With C300 MKIII and C500 MKII, there indeed seems to be something brewing. Presumably from Canon. But Sony might be ready to release a replacement for FX-6 and FX-9 too.

I seriously considered Canon before going for the FX6. It wasn’t at all clear to me that the C300 iii was a better camera than the FX6, let alone twice as good (at double the cost). The C500 ii was probably a step up from the FX6 but triple the cost. So maybe they’re not selling well? I haven’t seen either in the wild much.

 

[morgan_moore]

I seriously considered Canon before going for the FX6. It wasn’t at all clear to me that the C300 iii was a better camera than the FX6, let alone twice as good (at double the cost). The C500 ii was probably a step up from the FX6 but triple the cost. So maybe they’re not selling well? I haven’t seen either in the wild much.

There are reasons these camera have 'failed'

They were launched at the same time as the faster more ditially happy rf lenses were being launched.. yet didnt fit them

They are 50% more costy than the fs6 with little apparent benefit (and loss of infintite levels of nd?)

It is clear the AF is not as up to date as the r5, r8 (?) and other cheaper cams

--

Canon have failed to debunk the myth that AF is for newbs.

Where was the footage of sports players going down the wing at 400/2.8 being kept crispy in a way that no alexa or 2/3 camera (?) can - (ideally at 480fps)

Im sure they are very nice cameras.. but not nice enough to push me into the world of loans whereas my c200 was a cash buy.

--

C300 amd 500 its well time for a refresh (rf lens, 480p - with af, slug af, bat af, redhead af et al.) - hopefully canon get it right this time.

 

[Andy9]

There are reasons these camera have 'failed'

They were launched at the same time as the faster more ditially happy rf lenses were being launched.. yet didnt fit them

They are 50% more costy than the fs6 with little apparent benefit (and loss of infintite levels of nd?)

It is clear the AF is not as up to date as the r5, r8 (?) and other cheaper cams

--

Canon have failed to debunk the myth that AF is for newbs.

Where was the footage of sports players going down the wing at 400/2.8 being kept crispy in a way that no alexa or 2/3 camera (?) can - (ideally at 480fps)

Im sure they are very nice cameras.. but not nice enough to push me into the world of loans whereas my c200 was a cash buy.

--

C300 amd 500 its well time for a refresh (rf lens, 480p - with af, slug af, bat af, redhead af et al.) - hopefully canon get it right this time.

ah yes, I forgot about the lens mount issue. Also a factor. C300iii is almost double the price of the FX6 at B&H (11k vs 6k).

 

[cpreston]

As someone who bought a C500 II when it came out at the very end of 2020, it was more comparable to the FX9 than the FX6. The FX6 was comparable to the C300 III. The C500 II was more expensive than the FX9, but it also had more recording options, including RAW, and was more adaptable with the different backs. Like DLD always says, it would seem that the companies were coordinating their prices and products. If these cameras failed, I actually think it was the pandemic that did it.

 

[morgan_moore]

Its comparable to the fx6 because everyone soon found the 6 was better than the 9. So the 9 too was a waste of money.

In terms of things like raw.. "show me evidence that this is a good file format... im a producer I want to be convinced in a 30 second video because I heard raw is a pain"

Here we see that while feature may technically have value if producers dont get it they have no value.

Personally Id love a c500 and think it is possibly the best camera available.

 

[cpreston]

In terms of things like raw.. "show me evidence that this is a good file format... im a producer I want to be convinced in a 30 second video because I heard raw is a pain"

Here we see that while feature may technically have value if producers dont get it they have no value.

The actual producer selling point for me was the over sampled longGOP 4K that the previous generations did not have. “The file sizes are a third what what they were were on the C300 II with faster cards so file transfer is much faster. No more waiting around at the end of the day. Plus you can crop in 200% for your 2K deliverable and it will still look great. “

That was what got me to upgrade. If Canon can deliver a full frame 8K, DGO, quad pixel auto focus, 4K 444 12bit XF-AVC, with robust quick change EF/PL/LPL mounts that still use the same batteries and memory cards, then IMight be tempted again.

 

[DLD]

So maybe they’re not selling well? I haven’t seen either in the wild much.

I think all Canon models above R5 were destroyed by R5. And many non-Canons too. Regardless of its semi-fake overheating. It was 8K. It was oversampled 4K. It had AF and the RF mount. And it doubled as a high end photo camera on top of that. In other words, it created a load of excitement, even without "checking all the boxes" for many pro-shooters. It was the "#1 Best Seller" on B&H pretty much throughout its time store shelves. And it made a ton of money for Canon. They're willing to live with the consequences.

 

[Run&Gun]

Spill the beans/tea. What’s this 15 year old camera? :2vrolijk_08:

P2 VariCam. Released in 2008. Native 720P. Still making good looking TV in 2023.

Its kind of funny to think about some of the conversations we had during the transition from SD to HD, especially that we would never have cameras, again, that would last as long and be as accepted everywhere as our Betacam’s. I think I got six years out of my first one before I pretty much retired it and had to upgrade to a better camera(but still Betacam).

*Just to be clear, my copies aren’t 15 years old, but the model itself is.*

 

[DLD]

.... Like DLD always says, it would seem that the companies were coordinating their prices and products....

They are coordinated. Because that's the purpose of the cartel. But one can't coordinate the consumer demand. Someone or something always sticks out and/or gets a better reception than its competitors. If four "equally spaced" models come out, this doesn't mean they will get a 25% share each. One might get 50%, the other 5%.

In case of C500 MKII, I think it was overpriced because the market demand for the Dual Gain and the internal Raw Light was not as strong as anticipated. Not that the potential owners didn't realize the benefits of all these features but that not as many were willing to pay extra for them. Some did, others went with a decent enough 4K/6K codec.

I don't think the model was a failure per se. It was, in the words of Mr. Curly Howard, a "victim of soykumstances". A drop in business during Covid was likely one of them. The camera itself is a nice camera that takes nice images. It's that it didn't sell quite as well.

PS. The original C300 was $16,000 when it came out. Canon executives must have thought that, being a superior camera, C500MKII would sell well at that price. It was certainly offered for a lot less than the original C500's $25,000. But the demand for certain features plateaus and for others rises at a steady pace. No matter how much you test market a product, predictions don't always work out. And that's how it goes.

 

[NorBro]

The days of those kind of prices are finished for just about everyone.

~$6K is much as Joe and Jane are willing to pay. Anything more and it has to be career-changing good.

Even if it's all paper specs, the camera needs to be loaded up with resolutions, framerates, RAW, AF, IBIS; all kinds of features & gimmicks to make people feel good about the purchase.

And it's not because it's not affordable, at least for some of those above, but it's usually because it's not worth it.

 

[Liam Hall]

As someone who bought a C500 II when it came out at the very end of 2020, it was more comparable to the FX9 than the FX6. The FX6 was comparable to the C300 III. The C500 II was more expensive than the FX9, but it also had more recording options, including RAW, and was more adaptable with the different backs. Like DLD always says, it would seem that the companies were coordinating their prices and products. If these cameras failed, I actually think it was the pandemic that did it.

It came out in December 2019. That's when I picked mine up. I tested both C500MKII and Sony FX9. I liked both but the C500MKII was more versatile with better options for higher end work. I preferred the image too.

 

[Run&Gun]

It came out in December 2019. That's when I picked mine up. I tested both C500MKII and Sony FX9. I liked both but the C500MKII was more versatile with better options for higher end work. I preferred the image too.

I think the FX9 kind of played off it’s Fs7 successor vibe and got pushed into the “gotta have it” (client: we want you to have it)area, when other cameras could do the same job, possibly even better. I have a buddy with one and when I saw him a few weeks ago, he said, “Tell me again why I had to buy this F’n thing?”

 

[DLD]

The days of those kind of prices are finished for just about everyone...

It looks like the market has split in two. The "high end pro", with Amira's and Alexa's, and everyone else. And for everyone else, both the mage quality and the features with convenience (low light/high ISO/Dual Gain, IBIS, AF) for a one-man/small crew operation can be found, at worst, in sub-$10,000 cameras and, at best, for under $2,500 in FX-30, S5MKII, R6MKII, Pocket 6K, X-H2S, etc. And this gap isn't closing for a while because the quality of the mirrorless and the quasi nirrorless is constantly improving and ARRI isn't even remotely thinking of lowering its prices.