ND filters

Peter C.

Peter C.

Veteran
I was considering getting a ND filter. I've watched a bunch of videos and I'm familiar with all the issue. There are variable and flat NDs. The variable have the convenience of being able to turn it to adjust the amount without swapping. They all seem to change the color so no matter what brand you'll always need to redo the wb or fix it in post. One on the most talked about is the Peter McKinnon PolorPro the opinion and reviews range from this is the best vnd to it's an average filter that's over priced.

Seems like all of them no matter the brand effect the color and sharpness. The solid ones even the less expensive ones out perform the the vnd. I was thinking a good comprise would be get a magnetic kit of solid nds.

Btw, the I film almost exclusively indoors but I'm often rooms with large windows. I was thinking of just having 2 filter 3 and 6 stop that I can pop on quickly when needed. But I also think maybe it's not worth all the added trouble and expense when shooting at higher shutter speed isn't for a few shots isn't going to matter. Any thoughts on the subject?

Based on this video the K&F vnd looks like a soft vintage lens

Gerald likes the PolarPro

This videos makes me not even want to us a vnd
 
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I suppose this depends on what one is shooting and how fast/nimble one has to be. I use ND's for so many reasons, but primarily because I have a given T stop I want to use for any given shot, and the ND gets me there. Internal ND's have made this process so much simpler--for many of my jobs we just carry N3 and N6 because that between that and internal ND, every stop is covered (and for the inbetweens I'll adjust the ISO if I really want to keep the stop consistent.

I have barely used a VND--I have one for my A7 but that is just for run and gun (which I rarely end up doing)--if I had to keep a particularly shallow look under a variety of lighting conditions with no time to change filters or camera settings.

That said: I have a set of Tiffen .3, .6, .9 and 1.2 regular ND's (not IR) in 4x6 for sale if anyone is interested...!
 
Take a look at this DPRevew thread: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4439070

I can't perceive any sharpness reduction from midrange VNDs from established brands, but bottom of the barrel chinese one are probably a different story.

Here are the softest VNDs I've used, ranging from unusable to barely acceptable for HD: Genus (original version), Fotga, and Light Craft WorkShop.

P.S. SLR Magic, Formatt Hitech, and Simmod VNDs all look like the exact same filter from the pictures online, so either there's some affiliation or two companies are ripping off the third.
 
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Id just get a 3 and a 6 solid in the largest lens diameter you own

82 or 77 and pimp your lenses with step up rings

$15 amazon ND solids are fine.

Get a few duplicates so you can have two lenses dressed to shoot and a scratch is not a big bother.

Simple. Cheap. Effective.
 
I ended up with these and overall performance for the $$$ and minimal color shift, I found them better than the Polar Pro kit for color shift. So far very happy. Well-made, fast and very flexible to work with.

Also take note of NISI's advice re AF performance and NDs. I've seen, not often, AF problems on an A7siii and with further tests also on an A7iii and an A7iv with the Freewell, Polar Pro and the NISI variable NDs. I can't comment on any other Sony models or other brands.

Chris Young

https://en.nisioptics.com/blog/guide/how-to-focus-when-using-filters.html

 
You don't get a green or blue color cast at 6-stops? What if you stack the 3-stop & 6-stop?

I'd be inclined to recommend IRNDs, but I think only Blackmagic is skimping on IR cuts filters, so maybe you're fine, as long as you shoot with different brands.

Peter, how many stops of attenuation do you need?
 
Imamacuser said:
You don't get a green or blue color cast at 6-stops? What if you stack the 3-stop & 6-stop?

Peter, how many stops of attenuation do you need?
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3-6 stops. I did a test outdoors at the base iso 800 at 2.8 30p/60s I needed 6 stops. I commonly film in classroom or dance studio with large windows. Aperture 2.8-8 is reasonable because in documentary work the shallow dof isn't necessary like a wedding. I think 3 stops in that case to avoid diffraction with a high aperture. It also possible to lower the iso below the base but it reduces the dynamic range in the highlights.

This was an interesting video that showed when higher frame rate is noticeable.
 
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morgan_moore said:
Id just get a 3 and a 6 solid in the largest lens diameter you own
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Someone might get confused here so probably worth qualifying this. The technical designation for one stop of ND is 0.3 (variously written as N3, N.3, ND3 etc), so a three stop would be an 0.9. If I was to call for a 3 on set, the AC's would put up a one-stop filter.
 
Imamacuser said:
You don't get a green or blue color cast at 6-stops? What if you stack the 3-stop & 6-stop?

I'd be inclined to recommend IRNDs, but I think only Blackmagic is skimping on IR cuts filters, so maybe you're fine, as long as you shoot with different brands.

Peter, how many stops of attenuation do you need?
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Who are you speaking to?

Personally I like cameras with ND C200, FS7 and I have a matte box with some format filters for cinematography with a non nd cam.

So to me screw ons are for DSLR runabout.. and I really dont have high expectations - if its outside I put on a 3 or sunny put on a 6 (stop - sorry charles) maybe that puts me at 5.6 - but hey dont care - im using the DSLR so it is not an important shoot!

Again Ive not gone wonko checking the files from my DSLR - they seem OK Ive not had vomit inducing casts (since portuagal fs100 2012)

My c200 raw files.. ive geeked on them some.

Ive not had a corporate i sunnyn portugal on a dslr for a decade.. back then I cared, now I have nd cameras.

Seriously I feel that understanding the need for IR cut and the specific sensor is something best left to boffins at the factory. One of the secret reasons that sony and canon are 2x the cost of non nd cameras.

Whereever possible I would suggest a camera with built in ND.
 
For what it's worth, I had a recent email exchange with B+W (Schneider) about their solid NDs. I say recent, it took them about 4 months to reply.

I bought a 1.8 (B+W ND 106). It had a warm tone and not a particularly subtle one either. They acknowledge this and recommend adding an IR filter. They also say that the colour cast is not a problem with the newer version (ND 806).

"The 800series has fixed the „weaknesses“ of the 100series"

They're not going to do anything else for me - they're probably exhausted from replying to my email.

Don't know what the moral of the tale is - IR can be a problem with higher stops of ND.
 
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Andy9 said:
For what it's worth, I had a recent email exchange with B+W (Schneider) about their solid NDs. I say recent, it took them about 4 months to reply.

I bought a 1.8 (B+W ND 106). It had a warm tone and not a particularly subtle one either. They acknowledge this and recommend adding an IR filter. They also say that the colour cast is not a problem with the newer version (ND 806).

"The 800series has fixed the „weaknesses“ of the 100series"

They're not going to do anything else for me - they're probably exhausted from replying to my email.
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You have every right to be irritated. Buy and expensive product notice an issue, they admit it, and recommend you buy the newer version, instead of making things right. What are the percent of people who take the trouble to call a company on an issue 1/2 percent and they can't afford to send out a filter without a color cast?
 
cyvideo said:
I ended up with these and overall performance for the $$$ and minimal color shift, I found them better than the Polar Pro kit for color shift. So far very happy. Well-made, fast and very flexible to work with.

Also take note of NISI's advice re AF performance and NDs. I've seen, not often, AF problems on an A7siii and with further tests also on an A7iii and an A7iv with the Freewell, Polar Pro and the NISI variable NDs. I can't comment on any other Sony models or other brands.

Chris Young

https://en.nisioptics.com/blog/guide/how-to-focus-when-using-filters.html
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Chris - when you say "these" - assume you bought the Feelwell's? I have a couple of Tiffen VnD's - but when I saw that system - it seems much easier / faster / better... may switch if you continue to be happy (assuming you've had that system long enough to know you'll keep them)?
 
I'm curious as I'm seeing terms here that I've never seen before--"solid" ND's, "flat" ND's...are these in general use? I'm always fascinated when new terms infiltrate the industry and where they come from.
 
Not sure who created it, but B&H has used the word 'solid' for a long time now, likely referring to one piece of solid glass opposed to two as in a variable ND filter (which they don't call solid).
 
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